012: How to Prepare for a New Tabletop Roleplaying Game as a Player, With Jonathan Eisemann

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>> Clint Scheirer: Have you ever been asked to play a tabletop role playing game for the first

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time and didn't have the slightest idea how to prepare for

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the experience? Today I have with me

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Jonathan Eisemann who's uniquely qualified to talk

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about new player preparation. He's got over 20

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years experience playing and running tabletop rpg's

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at his table. He runs games such as Pathfinder

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2 E by Paizo, Star Wars RPG by

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Fantasy Flight Games and Avatar Legends

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by Magpie Games for both new and

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seasoned players. Lastly, he is a

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champion of fostering teamwork and creativity

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at the table, finding the balance between upholding the rules

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of the game without losing the fun of the game.

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Welcome to claim to game, the podcast helping busy people

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master tabletop role playing games one game at a

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time. I'm Clint Scheirer. I've been an educator for over

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twelve years and have helped gamers of all levels quickly

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grasp tabletop RPG's so they can enjoy

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playing them to the fullest. Stay tuned so that you

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can make your claim to game.

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>> Clint Scheirer: Jonathan Eisemann hello and welcome to

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Claim to Game

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>> Jonathan: Thanks for having me. I'm, excited to be back.

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>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah, man, you know, there was no, it was an absolute no

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brainer for me to ask you to join this episode.

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The first time that we met, I knew that we were kindred

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spirits. It was on a Microsoft Teams

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video call, and your virtual background had the

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rebel command center from either Hoth or Yavin.

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>> Jonathan: Yep.

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>> Clint Scheirer: I can't remember which one.

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>> Jonathan: Yavin Command base.

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>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah. The Star Wars trilogy, near and dear to my heart. And

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from then on, our conversations reveal that

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you have a longtime passion for this

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hobby of tabletop role playing games, and

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also a care and a thoughtfulness to the games that you

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run and also the games that you play.

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And so I want to start off by having you take

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me back to when I originally reached out to

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you to play Goblin Quest, the RPG for season one,

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our actual play of claim to game. What

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did you feel like when I, Clint when

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I reached out to you and said, hey, I want you to play

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this brand new tabletop RPG?

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>> Jonathan: Well, first off, I was super excited. We'd shared our passion

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for Pathfinder. You, introduced me to like,

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not introduced me directly to your group, but like, I'd

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gotten to see the recording of your group playing. So, I knew that you

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guys had a really fun atmosphere, so I was like, I gotta play a game

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with this guy at some point. And then you reached out to me and were like,

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hey, do you want to play this game? And I was like, sure, what is it? And then

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you explained it to me, and I was like, this is

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exactly my alley. I get to be a little chaos Goblin?

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Like, I'm in. It was a no brainer.

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>> Clint Scheirer: So what. What do you like about goblins? Like

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you've mentioned multiple times. Have you gotten to play goblins

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in other RPG's?

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>> Jonathan: Oh, all the time. I love using goblins as

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my, as NPC's. I think that there's a lot

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of variety in how goblins are portrayed.

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So they make good enemies, they make good allies.

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I've played some goblins in Pathfinder. I've

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played some goblins in some

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older D & D, which was a little bit like,

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hey, don't tell anybody, like, you're playing a monster. No, I

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love goblins. I've got, I showed you guys last time. I've got

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dice with Goblin heads in the core. I have

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somewhere around here a dice bag. That's a Goblin

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head. I think they're great.

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>> Clint Scheirer: Okay, so you were excited.

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>> Jonathan: I was.

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>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah. When I reached out and said, there's a brand new tabletop

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RPG to play, you were excited. Did you always.

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Is that how you've always been since you started playing

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tabletop RPG's? Like, somebody introduces a new

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game to you and you're just like, let's do this. Like, I want to know

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everything about it.

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>> Jonathan: So this might sound bad. Not always. A lot of

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the times I am, I was excited the first time I got to play

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Star Wars tabletop or first time I played Pathfinder.

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D & D. There are a lot of games that, like, right away

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I'm like, I'm in. That sounds great. And then there's sometimes

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where somebody tells me about a game, and I'm like, I don't

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know, man. This doesn't really sound like my dig. And then we

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play it, and of course I have a great time because it's really about

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the people that you're with. Like, some games are a

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little bit crunchier, and sometimes I enjoy that and some games

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are a little bit looser, and sometimes I enjoy that.

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But it really is the people at your table that

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make the game, in my opinion.

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>> Clint Scheirer: Can you give me some examples of games that you felt a

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little bit more hesitant to jump?

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>> Jonathan: Absolutely. So, I don't know if you've heard of this, and

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this is not at all. This is not a bad word about this

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game. I have heard amazing things about a game called

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Lancer, which is a mech based,

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tabletop role playing game. I

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cannot for the life of me, wrap my head around the

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rules. So I'm gonna have to just play

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it with somebody that knows how to play it someday, and then I'll get it

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right. Like, sometimes just sitting down with the book just

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doesn't get me there. I don't have that, like, light bulb

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going off moment. And also, I'm a little bit hesitant.

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So I have kind, of a gundam, background. Just

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finished up season one of, Gundam double

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zero, literally yesterday. So I've got a little bit of a

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Gundam's background. So when I looked at Lancer, I was

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a little confused because they're kind of a

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bridge between Gundam style mech and

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battletech mech. If I'm understanding the system correct,

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there's always an underlying, like, military,

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global economy, global politics

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aspect to giant robot

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media, and doesn't really get me that

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said, I've heard a lot of people that I know

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that, like, gundams that were very interested

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in Lancer, but I just wasn't as excited when

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I first heard about it.

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>> Clint Scheirer: What about the rules? Like, just doesn't

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like, that doesn't click when you're reading the rules and you're

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like, I don't get it. I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing here.

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What makes it feel that way?

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>> Jonathan: I'm glad you said that. So when you asked me to play Goblin

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Quest and I asked if I could read the rule book, and you sent

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me the rule book, and I sat down and I read the

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rule book, like I was reading a

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book. Like, I literally went page to page and went

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through it. When I look at Lancer, like, anytime

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I own a copy of the core rulebook over on my shelf over

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there, and if I sit down with that book,

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I feel like I'm reading a textbook, there's just

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something that doesn't, like, grip me and pull

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me in, if that makes sense.

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>> Clint Scheirer: Grant does a really good job of using

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humor.

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>> Jonathan: He does.

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>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah. And just a sarcasm and kind of a

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quirky, I don't know. His jokes are right up

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my alley. And so when I read something and I'm just

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like, oh, yeah, that's hilarious. It feels like I'm

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reading an episode of Family Guy, but instead,

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maybe the D & D version. What was the

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first thing that you did after you knew

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that we were going to be playing this game?

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>> Jonathan: Absolutely. so the first thing I did is I made sure I had a set of

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dice picked out that I was going to be using for my Goblin

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or goblins. And then the second thing I did, which is I

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think the first thing you got to see me do was

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ask for a copy of the rule book and then

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consume that like a meal. I

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really picked the bones clean on that one.

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>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah. Ah. So asking for the rules now.

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Sometimes I buy a copy

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of the rule book of whatever game it is because I'm so,

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like, excited. Maybe I like the setting. Do

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you, do you usually go and

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purchase the actual game before trying to get some

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taste of it, or do you try to, like, scour the Internet

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first before making, like, an actual purchase?

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>> Jonathan: My preferred way, of approaching new

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games is generally to either buy a

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pared down version of the rules or

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to actually sit down and play a game

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first with somebody who knows how to play it. And

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then if I, if I like it, then I'm like,

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cool. And then I go buy a bunch of stuff for it.

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>> Clint Scheirer: Do you feel like it's necessary as a player

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to have to have all the materials before

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jumping in to purchasing the book

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and also the materials for the game?

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>> Jonathan: That's an interesting question. I really want to

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say no, but my bookshelf disagrees with

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me.

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>> Clint Scheirer: So for you, it's not

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>> Jonathan: Right. For me, it's not an option. For other people,

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I'd say definitely give it a try. Don't jump

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feet first in. Look before you leap. It's

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great advice. Myself, I leap. I'm a leaper.

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I've always been a leaper. So I dive in and then I

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learn how to doggy paddle when I'm in the water.

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>> Clint Scheirer: And you know something I've noticed that some

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tabletop RPG companies or publishers will do

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is they will get a free basic set of

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the rules.

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>> Jonathan: Yep.

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>> Clint Scheirer: That you can download the PDF. They may even do a quick

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one shot adventure that is free so you don't have to drop a

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bunch of cash. Usually it's a PDF version.

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>> Jonathan: Yep.

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>> Clint Scheirer: That you can download. I found that's been really helpful for

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me, but usually I go out at that from

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a DM, side of things. If I'm the

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game master, I'm the one looking up the adventure.

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And then as a player, have you found that

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any companies do some really cool things for

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players when they're trying to get into a game, whatever that

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may be, like, free thing, freebies.

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>> Jonathan: I'm going to sound like a shill, but, Paizo

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puts together beginner boxes, so there's a Star finder

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beginner box. There's a Pathfinder beginner box. And

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in those beginner boxes, there's a full. There's pre

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made characters. It comes with a set of dice. There's

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like, a lot of resources to help new people.

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And there's a pre written adventure

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that you like. If the DM wants to run the adventure, they can run

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it for players. But there's also a pre written

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solo adventure. So the DM can do like a choose

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your own adventure and kind of get a feel for

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it. I think that that's really cool. The other

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thing is, I like games that have a,

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welcoming community going along the same lines. I went

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to, a convention recently with a friend of

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mine, and they had a whole floor of a hotel

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reserved. And they were Wizards of the Coast, D &

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D adventures league. They were running,

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Pathfinder, they were running Starfinder. There was somebody

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running a table of, like, Call of Cthulhu. And

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anytime you can sit down and just play the game

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and be like, listen, I don't know what's happening here. Put a piece of paper in

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my hands, tell me what numbers I need to look at, and you tell me which

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dice I need to roll. And, like, I'll figure the rest of it out as

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we go.

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>> Clint Scheirer: So, community.

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>> Jonathan: Oh, absolutely.

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>> Clint Scheirer: Community is really important. And, you

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know, you've mentioned a few.

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Can you restate or just talk about some other

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ways that people can get into the gaming community,

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the tabletop role playing community, to have these

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experiences?

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>> Jonathan: Oh, definitely. So, you know, most of, most

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of the gaming that I'm aware of, you'll find people on

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community discords. So there's like a Pathfinder discord. I'm

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sure there's a D & D discord. There's like,

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subreddits, right? There's a looking for group subreddit. There's a

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subreddit for basically every tabletop game I've ever

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seen in existence. Because one thing is,

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when you like something, you like talking about it, so people will

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create their spaces to talk about these things that they love. Yeah,

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there's. There's, online resources I've recently

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actually become aware of and, this is not a new

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thing in any means. I'm just really late to the game on

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this one. But Meetup. Meetup can help you find

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people that are actually playing physically in your area.

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So I found my local pathfinder society

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group and I've been going weekly to game

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with them.

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>> Clint Scheirer: That's another thing to consider. I've always run one

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shots because I feel like one shots. The

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investment is very low, the commitment is

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very low, and I love when new players want to try the

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hobby for the first time. And if they're like, "Eh?" a one shot is a

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great way, a great, way to give them an

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exit ramp.

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>> Jonathan: Absolutely right. you're like, listen, can I,

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can I just borrow 90 minutes of your time?

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And if you hate it, then that's only 90 minutes wasted. But if

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you love it, then that 90 minutes is going to turn into 3 hours,

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and we'll see you again next week.

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>> Clint Scheirer: What is your process? Usually when

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you're starting to get a game, you mentioned a few things.

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Like, first, you're a leaper. You like to get all

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the stuff, but once you have all the stuff

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you mentioned consuming the literature, what does

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that look like for you? What is the consumption of that book

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or of that material look like?

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>> Jonathan: Sure. so I. I've recently

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started tempering myself, by trying to dive in with

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beginner boxes. Anything like starter sets, beginner boxes,

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stuff that's intended to be kind of a foot in the

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door. The most recent example of that is,

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I bought the Avatar Legends starter

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set from Magpie Games. I have played a

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couple of narrative based games in the past. This

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one was written very differently. So the first thing I did

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was I opened up. There's, I believe, three

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books. There's one that explains, like, the rules in a

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quick, like 30 pages. Say quick

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30 pages, but like, it's a relatively small

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book given the size of some of those rule books out there. And then there

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is, an adventure book, and then there is

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like, I think a character book. They tend

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to give you where they want you to start. Like, read this

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one first because this will give you the framework, the

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foundation that everything's built on. And then once you understand

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that, you can understand, how they've built what they've built.

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Right. As examples. So that's how I'm, I'm enjoying

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starting now. Previously, I would just

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buy the player's handbook and the GM's handbook if

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it was a separate book. And I would try to read them like

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textbooks.

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>> Clint Scheirer: My first game, and I've shared this with other people on the

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pod... D & D. I think that is the

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most well known tabletop role playing game in the

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world at this point. In the early 2020s.

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It's.

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>> Jonathan: Oh, definitely

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>> Clint Scheirer: That's the game, right? And there's the movie. There's all

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the stuff going on there. It's really. It's really expanded

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beyond nerd culture. There's so many articles and so

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many things that go be, you know, talks about that, how it started out

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as taboo, and now it's, like, becoming a part of

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mainstream, like, the cool thing to do.

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>> Jonathan: Sure.

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>> Clint Scheirer: The very first pages. I don't know what pages. I

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remember reading the 5 E

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Here's how you make your character, and here's how you

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roll your stats, and here's how you get into the

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game. And now that you have, like, the basis,

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let's do it for you.

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>> Jonathan: Right.

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>> Clint Scheirer: Pathfinder does a very similar thing in Paizo's book,

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walking you through step by step, what needs to happen. It

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sounds like, you know, magpie games does the same

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thing. So it's a formula.

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>> Jonathan: Yeah. Oh, definitely. Well, yeah, you have. So you start people

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with, what is this? Right. And I think all of them

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do that. You start with, what is a tabletop game?

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And then once you understand what a tabletop game is, then, what is

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this tabletop game? Because this tabletop game,

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Avatar, is very different from this tabletop game,

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Pathfinder, very different from this tabletop game, Call of

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Cthulhu. Right. So there's, a baseline that you

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set that each of them does in their own way of

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setting expectations of what

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is a game, and then

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what is our game.

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>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah, I like that. What is our game? What is the game

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happening right now, exactly? You know, there's

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always tabletop role playing. There's. There's dice.

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>> Jonathan: Mm hmm.

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>> Clint Scheirer: I don't think I've ever. There are dice less

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ones.

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>> Jonathan: I haven't played any, but, I would. If somebody wants to

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invite me to a diceless game, let me know.

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>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah. Hey, maybe we'll. Maybe we'll do one here. I mean, there's. There's

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some very creative narrative games that. That I have

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played, and I tend to be more of a

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storyteller. Sure. one of my

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heroes is Robin D. Laws, and I've mentioned him

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a few times in our podcast, and he really breaks down.

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It's not his own hierarchy, but he really

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breaks down the different types of gaming

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styles that players would have. And,

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I am very much a method actor. I'm very much a

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storyteller. I want to be my character and do

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what my character would do. Narrative based

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stories, I think, really lend to that. You mentioned

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Fantasy Flight, Star Wars RPG. I

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love that.

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>> Jonathan: Oh, definitely.

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>> Clint Scheirer: There's a bit of crunchiness in there that I don't get. Like, there are

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some rules in there that, like, with mechanics of the

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ships and mechanics and all this stuff that I'm like, oh gosh,

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I don't really understand. So maybe I need to run a game that you play

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sometime to figure out those rules. What

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I'd like you to do is if you were

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forced to take your process for learning

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a game and make it into three

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easy steps that somebody could remember, that somebody could

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take with them, they're like, okay, this Jonathan guy, he's been

00:15:50
playing games for over 20 years. Like, how, how can I

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do that? Being fresh, brand new. But

00:15:56
I want to get into this hobby because it sounds cool. Like, I used to watch

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Avatar growing up on TV, or I watched

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all the Star Wars. I didn't know they made games where you could pretend

00:16:05
to be in Star Wars or any of those

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things.

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>> Clint Scheirer: What would your three steps be?

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>> Jonathan: Okay, so this one's hard for me,

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because I get really excited really fast, right? And I

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jump. So if I had to give

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advice on what I would think is the best way to

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do this, not necessarily the way I do it, but what I would

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recommend is step one,

00:16:26
figure out what you want to play. There's a lot of different

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games. Some, people like the math. Like, if you're a

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big, like, MMO person, right, you like figuring out

00:16:35
a build and you want to go after like an

00:16:38
optimum way to play a game. There are games for that.

00:16:40
If you're somebody who just wants to tell a story,

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like, if you're, if you're willing to theater. There

00:16:46
are narrative driven stories that almost never touch

00:16:49
dice. So first, the first step is definitely figure

00:16:52
out what you want to play. And then the second

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step is, is find a group. And that can be

00:16:58
hard. Sometimes it's a struggle to find a group that's

00:17:00
playing what you want, how you want, when you want,

00:17:03
right? Because scheduling is, the real

00:17:06
villain of, any tabletop game. But then,

00:17:09
so once you know what you want to play and then where

00:17:12
you're going to play it or when you're going to play it, then figure

00:17:15
out like, how to play it,

00:17:18
even if it's just. I know that I need

00:17:20
a, D 20, I need a pen and paper, and

00:17:23
somebody will teach me as I go. Like, that's completely valid.

00:17:26
If you're somebody who, like, really wants to get into the know

00:17:29
how of the rules, I would recommend one of the first books

00:17:32
that I ever picked up personally was,

00:17:35
how to DM for dummies. Learn about it,

00:17:38
right? It's the, tabletop equivalent

00:17:41
of reading the instruction booklet that came with your new video

00:17:43
game back in the day. Not everybody did it, but

00:17:46
those who did knew things that people that didn't read it knew.

00:17:49
>> Clint Scheirer: There was a game called Breath of Fire for Super Nintendo

00:17:52
and Breath of Fire II And if you didn't

00:17:55
use the instruction booklet, you couldn't beat

00:17:58
the game.

00:17:59
>> Jonathan: Sure.

00:17:59
>> Clint Scheirer: Like, it was telling you bits of the story that the

00:18:02
game itself wasn't telling you, that you wouldn't have the

00:18:05
context without using the instructions, which I

00:18:08
like.

00:18:09
>> Jonathan: Did you know the ghosts in Pac man have names?

00:18:12
>> Clint Scheirer: Oh, yeah. Blinky and Winky and...

00:18:15
>> Jonathan: Something like that. I don't know their names off the top of my head, but I know that that

00:18:17
was in the instruction booklet. And if you didn't read it, you didn't

00:18:20
know.

00:18:21
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah, there's so many things like that with the

00:18:23
instruction booklets.

00:18:24
>> Jonathan: Yeah.

00:18:25
>> Clint Scheirer: Ready Player One is one of my absolute

00:18:27
favorite books of all time. If you've ever heard

00:18:30
the audible version, Will Wheaton reads it. It

00:18:33
is unbelievable.

00:18:35
>> Jonathan: Nice.

00:18:35
>> Clint Scheirer: Former Star Trek actor Wesley

00:18:38
Crusher, Wil Wheaton's, phenomenal and a big

00:18:41
proponent of tabletop role playing games. Of course.

00:18:43
>> Jonathan: Nice.

00:18:44
>> Clint Scheirer: Okay, so just to recap, your three

00:18:47
steps are figure out what you want to play,

00:18:50
and that could be based on your interests, what you like, what

00:18:53
you think is unique, what you love

00:18:55
about gaming. It might be the numbers, it might be the

00:18:58
math. Step two is find a group, which we mentioned

00:19:01
you can do through Discord channels for a particular

00:19:04
game, looking for a game. we even have a Discord

00:19:07
channel for Claim to Game, where there is a section where you

00:19:10
can find a group. it's a little small at

00:19:13
this point, but eventually maybe

00:19:15
>> Jonathan: It'll get there.

00:19:16
>> Clint Scheirer: A thriving community. And then three,

00:19:19
figure out how to play it.

00:19:21
>> Jonathan: Yeah.

00:19:21
>> Clint Scheirer: And there's many different ways to do that. You can read players

00:19:24
manuals, you can do beginners boxes. There's

00:19:27
so many, YouTube channels out there. There's this

00:19:29
podcast that tries to walk you through, specific games.

00:19:32
That's the aim here, is to help you master those different games one game

00:19:35
at a time.

00:19:36
>> Jonathan: Yeah. Can you recommend any podcast that might teach people how to

00:19:39
play games? I feel like that would be really helpful.

00:19:42
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah. I think that sly and

00:19:44
flourish.

00:19:45
>> Jonathan: Oh, okay.

00:19:46
>> Clint Scheirer: Amazing. So Lazy Dungeon Master, Mike

00:19:49
Shea, we've talked about him a little bit.

00:19:51
He is more for game masters

00:19:54
and helping them learn how to prep quicker, faster

00:19:57
and easier.

00:19:58
>> Jonathan: Gotcha.

00:19:58
>> Clint Scheirer: He's been doing it for years. Like, I think since I

00:20:01
don't I don't want to quote this, but I think I've seen

00:20:04
his YouTube channel go back to like, 2013, which,

00:20:07
I mean, it doesn't sound like a lot, but it is now. That's over, right?

00:20:10
Ten years. Ten years at least. So I guess eleven

00:20:13
ish. But yeah, Mike Shea is really

00:20:15
phenomenal, "How it's Played," I think for Pathfinder 2E

00:20:18
is a

00:20:19
>> Jonathan: Phenomenal tool.

00:20:21
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah. Just goes through rules, bits by

00:20:24
bits, which I think is great. The

00:20:27
people who get really into it, I, think

00:20:30
are people, if you really want to know a game inside and out,

00:20:33
you know, a lot of times people will say, well, I don't have the time,

00:20:35
right? Like, I want to learn this. I want to go hang out

00:20:38
with my friends who are all about this. I just want to know

00:20:41
enough that I can jump in. And there's

00:20:44
videos out there for that, too.

00:20:45
>> Jonathan: The advice I'd give to that, actually, is

00:20:48
almost universally now, I'm sure that

00:20:51
there's, there's an exception to every rule, right? But

00:20:54
I have not yet met the person that

00:20:57
gets disappointed when one of their friends says,

00:21:00
"You play a lot of tabletop. Can I come and

00:21:03
play sometime?" You got to have people to play. If

00:21:06
you're our friend, of course we want you to play. Like,

00:21:08
we'll find a way.

00:21:10
>> Clint Scheirer: Who are we talking about? Joe O'Brien from

00:21:13
the glass cannon network. He has a

00:21:15
theory that, and I think it's

00:21:18
also Troy Lavalley has a theory

00:21:21
that sports people, people who love

00:21:24
sports, who love the numbers and statistics, they

00:21:27
would love tabletop role playing game

00:21:29
games. They would love tabletop role playing games. They just

00:21:32
need to try it.

00:21:34
>> Jonathan: Find the one that you like.

00:21:35
>> Clint Scheirer: Find the one that you like, and then, you know,

00:21:38
it's really like having your own player in a sports

00:21:41
team for a collaborative goal that you're all striving

00:21:44
for. So, pretty, cool.

00:21:45
>> Jonathan: Yeah. The same things apply, right? Like they

00:21:48
say, get your play, get your kids to play sports

00:21:51
in school, because they'll learn teamwork and they'll learn

00:21:54
integrity, and they'll learn critical thinking, they'll learn hand

00:21:57
eye coordination, and anybody that I

00:21:59
know learns those same skills in tabletop.

00:22:02
And we can throw our dice in the tray.

00:22:04
>> Clint Scheirer: That's right.

00:22:05
Create a ten word phrase to share

00:22:08
with listeners that embodies your process above.

00:22:11
So just to recap, your process was, what

00:22:14
do you want to play? Find a group, figure out

00:22:17
how to play it. I don't think that's ten words, is it?

00:22:20
>> Jonathan: I don't think it's quite ten words, boy. Ten

00:22:22
words exactly. No more, no less, huh?

00:22:24
>> Clint Scheirer: so, ten words. this was a strategy that was

00:22:27
taught to me from a book called, "Make, noise." And

00:22:30
it was about podcasting. It's talking about

00:22:33
if something is directive and

00:22:36
very focused, it helps you

00:22:38
understand when you make decisions what you should do.

00:22:41
If you have a ten word thing to live

00:22:44
by when you're doing tabletop rpg's, it helps you make

00:22:47
decisions. Should I get the whole set here, or should

00:22:50
I be jumping into a community?

00:22:52
>> Jonathan: I think I've got it, and I'm about to. I'm going to

00:22:55
say it, and I'm also going to send it to you in the chat so,

00:22:58
that you've got a copy of it. and I think that

00:23:00
this is probably the

00:23:03
single most important piece of advice that I

00:23:06
can give. This is going to sum up my entire

00:23:09
theory about gaming. Yeah.

00:23:12
So my ten word phrase

00:23:15
of advice that embodies the

00:23:18
core of my process is, "If you're

00:23:20
interested, just ask. People want you

00:23:23
to know."

00:23:24
>> Clint Scheirer: If you're interested, just ask. People

00:23:27
want you to know.

00:23:28
>> Jonathan: Yeah.

00:23:29
>> Clint Scheirer: The people being. The people in this tabletop

00:23:32
community.

00:23:32
>> Jonathan: Sure. People, in any tabletop community.

00:23:35
Tabletop communities do not thrive

00:23:37
by being exclusionary. The more people playing the

00:23:40
game, the better. In. In every game,

00:23:43
in every instance. Now, a

00:23:46
specific table might have a limit. They might

00:23:49
have too many people to have more people,

00:23:51
but then you just make more tables. That's the

00:23:54
beauty of it, is there's an infinite number

00:23:57
of tables, potentially, and people want

00:24:00
to share this. If they're enjoying it, they want

00:24:03
to talk about it. So if you're

00:24:06
even mildly interested, if you

00:24:08
ask, they will talk and talk and talk and

00:24:11
talk about it.

00:24:12
>> Clint Scheirer: It's true. You know, one of my favorite things to ask at, like,

00:24:15
a party or if I'm going somewhere, Jonathan, is I

00:24:18
don't ask anymore, "What do you do for a living?"

00:24:21
Right? Like, that's so easy. And people will tell

00:24:23
you, and then, like, it might be interesting, or they may, like,

00:24:26
not like, what they do, right. Instead,

00:24:29
I've started asking people, "What do you love to

00:24:32
do?" And they will talk for

00:24:35
hours, and there is no end to

00:24:38
what they have to say. And if it's a tabletop role playing gamer, you will

00:24:41
be talking about tabletop rpg's the entire time.

00:24:44
>> Jonathan: Or even, "What do you wish you could be doing

00:24:47
this weekend?" Right?

00:24:49
>> Clint Scheirer: Oh, I like that one.

00:24:51
>> Jonathan: There's a convention that I'm unfortunately not going

00:24:54
to make it to, so that would be my answer,

00:24:56
right. If I could, I would be at that

00:24:59
convention playing a tabletop game. Unfortunately,

00:25:02
I won't be able to attend that convention, so I'm going to

00:25:05
a different tabletop thing.

00:25:06
>> Clint Scheirer: Well, good for you. Way to make it happen. Way to.

00:25:09
Way to find your tribe, where your community's

00:25:12
at, if people want to connect with

00:25:15
you, or if they wanted to find you

00:25:18
somewhere where it was an appropriate place, like, they're not just like, "Hey,

00:25:21
here you are, Jonathan at McDonald's. Good to see you."

00:25:23
How can they connect? Where can listeners find you

00:25:26
online if they wish to connect?

00:25:28
>> Jonathan: I'm not in a ton of places online.

00:25:31
I tend to, like, kind of keep to myself, doing my own thing.

00:25:34
But I'm in your discord. they can find me. I'm Scyth

00:25:36
Wolf. a lot of people say Sith Wolf. It's CYTHWULF

00:25:39
C y t h w u l f.

00:25:42
I'm not really on social media that

00:25:45
much, but I'm on discord. I'm around. I'm like,

00:25:47
in game forums. I'm on Reddit. You know,

00:25:50
if you start digging around in areas, if

00:25:53
it's one of my hobbies, I'm sure you'll find me there.

00:25:55
>> Clint Scheirer: Very good.

00:25:56
>> Clint Scheirer: And I will say that Reddit

00:25:59
is such a well. I think. I think their tagline

00:26:02
is like, "Dive into anything."

00:26:04
>> Jonathan: Yeah.

00:26:05
>> Clint Scheirer: Or something. Or used to be.

00:26:06
>> Jonathan: Something like that.

00:26:08
>> Clint Scheirer: The tabletop role playing community in

00:26:10
Reddit is robust.

00:26:12
>> Jonathan: Wildly, active. Wildly

00:26:15
active.

00:26:16
>> Jonathan: You can't. It's way too much to keep up with.

00:26:19
>> Clint Scheirer: I mean, I.

00:26:20
>> Jonathan: Good problem to have.

00:26:21
>> Clint Scheirer: Well, and that's how I found Goblin Quest,

00:26:23
because I was busy and

00:26:26
I wanted to run games, but I couldn't teach everybody how

00:26:29
to play D & D every, every time I wanted a

00:26:32
new player. And I also wanted something quick. One and

00:26:35
done. And there's a, Reddit for one page

00:26:38
rpg's, and Grant Howitt writes one

00:26:41
page rpg's. It just so happened that

00:26:43
Goblin quest is like 70 plus pages.

00:26:45
>> Jonathan: Right? Still...

00:26:47
>> Clint Scheirer: He to a stab at a few more.

00:26:48
>> Jonathan: Yeah.

00:26:48
>> Clint Scheirer: Cool. Well, Jonathan, thanks for being here.

00:26:51
I hope to have you again as another, another

00:26:54
interviewee. And did you have any last words

00:26:57
that you want to leave anybody with?

00:26:59
>> Jonathan: I'll be in your discord. if anybody has

00:27:01
any questions specifically for me, I'm not sure why they would. I'm just a

00:27:04
guy, but

00:27:06
>> Clint Scheirer: We're all just guys.

00:27:07
>> Jonathan: Yeah.

00:27:08
>> Clint Scheirer: Or girls.

00:27:09
>> Jonathan: Yeah, definitely. No, just, I guess go

00:27:12
have fun if you want to play a game. Like,

00:27:15
ask. People will try and get you into a

00:27:17
game. And if you don't like how that game went,

00:27:20
like, try a different game. There's lots of games, there's

00:27:23
lots of ways people play, the way that

00:27:26
I run a table of pathfinder,

00:27:28
wildly different from the way that any of my friends

00:27:31
run a Pathfinder table. Because, you know, what's

00:27:34
the thing? If you put ten people in a room and ask a

00:27:37
question, you get ten opinions. Like, everybody has

00:27:40
their own style of doing things. So really, at the end of

00:27:43
the day, like, you'll find a group

00:27:45
that plays what you want to play, how you want to play it, and

00:27:48
if you don't, you can be the one, be

00:27:51
the change you want to see. Start your own table, and

00:27:54
then you'll find people who were looking for your table.

00:27:57
>> Clint Scheirer: Was that Gandhi that said, be the change, you know, Nelson

00:28:00
Mandela?

00:28:01
>> Jonathan: I think so. I'm not quite sure who said it, but

00:28:04
yeah, very applicable quote.

00:28:07
>> Clint Scheirer: You're the Nelly Mandeli of tabletop role playing games,

00:28:09
Jonathan.

00:28:10
>> Jonathan: Oh, I don't know about that. I'm glad I

00:28:13
get to be your community. And, I'm really excited for, some more

00:28:16
episodes on the way.

00:28:17
>> Clint Scheirer: Your famous last words. I'll see you on the discord.

00:28:19
>> Jonathan: That's right. See you on the discord, everybody.

00:28:21
>> Clint Scheirer: Join us next time as we continue our quest

00:28:24
claiming Goblin quest. When you just aren't feeling

00:28:27
the goblins, or the great battle camp... how can you

00:28:30
use the mechanics of this game for other settings

00:28:33
and stories? The official term for this is

00:28:36
rules hacks. And let me tell you, there are plenty of

00:28:38
them available to pick in the Goblin quest RPG book.

00:28:42
We'll go through each hack in its very own episode.

00:28:44
The claim to Game podcast has one mission, helping

00:28:47
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00:28:50
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00:29:28
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