Claim to Game Podcast
046 - Autism, D&D, and RPGs: A Natural 20 Combo - With Ron Desi
Claim to GameSeptember 18, 2025
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046 - Autism, D&D, and RPGs: A Natural 20 Combo - With Ron Desi

#46 - Why do tabletop RPGs like Dungeons & Dragons resonate so deeply with players on the autism spectrum? How can storytelling, character roleplay, and a good session of dice-rolling help build social skills, confidence, and genuine connectionā€”for anyone, autistic or not? In this episode, Clint sits down with YouTuber, spokesperson, and lifelong gamer Ron Desi, who shares how he leads D&D sessions for young autistic men in a way thatā€™s safe, empowering, and fun. Whether youā€™re a player, a parent, or just curious about the power of games, this conversation offers fresh insight into how roleplaying unlocks community, creativity, and growth.

 

RPG Class in Real Life Quiz šŸ¤” - https://dungeonnoob-class-quiz.scoreapp.com/ 

 

Ronā€™s Game Store šŸŽ² - https://gamehavenmd.com/ 

 

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00:00:00
>> Clint Scheirer: Why do tabletop RPGs like Dungeons and Dragons

00:00:02
resonate so deeply with players on the autism

00:00:05
spectrum? How can storytelling, character, role play

00:00:08
in a good session of dice rolling help build confidence,

00:00:11
social skills, and genuine connection, whether you're

00:00:14
autistic or not? YouTuber, spokesman and

00:00:17
lifelong gamer Ron Desi is go going to share how he leads

00:00:20
sessions of Dungeons and Dragons for young autistic men

00:00:23
in ways that are safe, empowering and fun.

00:00:26
###Unun Whether you're a parent, a player, or

00:00:29
just curious about the power of games, this conversation will

00:00:31
unlock how role playing games bring community,

00:00:34
creativity and growth.

00:00:36
>> Ron Desi: Growth.

00:00:37
>> Clint Scheirer: Let's go make your claim to game.

00:01:12
How did you get in to Dungeons and Dragons? How did

00:01:15
you get into tabletop role playing? Like, why is this

00:01:18
so much fun and why do you spend time on it?

00:01:21
>> Ron Desi: That. That's a good question, Clint.Scheirer@claimtogamepodcast.com. so the, the.

00:01:23
I'll try to keep this as short as possible. So basically.

00:01:26
>> Clint Scheirer: Wait, keep it as long as possible. That's okay.

00:01:28
>> Ron Desi: Long as possible. No, I ll. I'll do that then.

00:01:31
so really what it was about was back in the

00:01:34
80s, I'm 52, so we're talking about

00:01:36
81, 80 something around that,

00:01:39
that timef frame during the. I don't know if

00:01:42
you remember this, but probably a lot of your viewers and listeners

00:01:45
will. The Satanic Panic or you probably have heard of it. Oh yeah, it

00:01:48
was really in the height of that. And

00:01:51
ironically, I went to Catholic school and you would think that a

00:01:54
Catholic school would look at the Satanic Panic and everything going

00:01:56
on and saying, we'll never have that in our

00:01:59
school. Nope, they had a D20 & D club.

00:02:02
And so, so at this Catholic school I went to, they had a D20 &

00:02:05
D club and it was the eighth grade teacher who was

00:02:08
the Dungeon Master. And that's kind of when I

00:02:11
got into it. And it was so much fun. I

00:02:13
loved it, played it for years, up until

00:02:16
like, high school. And then kind of

00:02:19
things got different. You know, girls became a priority over Dungeon

00:02:22
and Dragons and, you know, all the stuff that, you know,

00:02:25
adolescent boys do. Hey, girls.

00:02:29
So that kind of took a backseat and then life got busy.

00:02:32
But I always enjoyed D20 & D. I remember I read all

00:02:35
the Dristz books. Drizz it or Drist. I don't know how to pronounce

00:02:38
them. But the Forgotten Realms, you know, the Dark Elf

00:02:41
with Brunor, Battlehammeer and all the other ones. U.

00:02:44
Katie Bree. And I remember reading all those books, the drag.

00:02:47
>> Clint Scheirer: The whole that's the name.

00:02:48
>> Ron Desi: The. The drow. That's right, the Drow. yeah, he was a

00:02:51
good drow, even though they were evil in the monster manual

00:02:54
kind of thing. And I remember I was even as

00:02:57
a. Up until like, 30 years old, I was reading all those

00:03:00
books into it, but never really thought I'd get

00:03:02
back into D20 & D. And

00:03:05
it was about. I guess, probably about a year

00:03:08
ago. actually, little. About a year ago, because

00:03:11
a Facebook post came up when I said I was looking to

00:03:14
play again. I read a book called

00:03:17
Taming the Dragon. I think it was. I can. I always can't

00:03:20
remember what it is. Taming the Dragon or something like

00:03:22
that. And, it was about the history of

00:03:25
Dungeons and Dragons, stuff that I never heard of

00:03:28
before about Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson.

00:03:31
And they had this struggle. I mean, it was pretty fascinating

00:03:33
how, you know, we almost lost D20 & D

00:03:36
for, you know, it almost crumbled back, I

00:03:39
think, in the late 80s, early 90s. And it would have

00:03:42
gone disappeared, whatever, if I think it

00:03:45
was Wizards of the coast didn't purchase them. I mean, they had a

00:03:48
lot of business issues. So, anyway, long story short,

00:03:51
that got me back into the fire was lit again.

00:03:54
>> Clint Scheirer: We didn.

00:03:56
>> Ron Desi: And so I went into

00:03:59
trying to find a group. And that right

00:04:02
there, let me tell you, Clint.Scheirer@claimtogamepodcast.com, trying to find a

00:04:05
group is the hardest dragon to slay. And Dungeons and

00:04:08
Dragons as an adult, as a working adult

00:04:11
who has know kids and you got, you

00:04:14
know, all these other things to go to. Trying to coordinate

00:04:17
another group of adults is

00:04:19
terrible kind of thing.

00:04:21
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah.

00:04:21
>> Ron Desi: And I. And I'll even say to this day, I still haven't found a group

00:04:24
to play as a player. I'm looking, but

00:04:27
everyone's schedules are all different, so it's. It's. I'm still

00:04:30
looking. But anyway, u. So that was kind of like the history of

00:04:33
how I got back into D20 & D. It was always a part of my life,

00:04:36
like a thread throughout. And like, it's like at the beginning, it was

00:04:38
heavy as I played as a child, and

00:04:41
then up through high school. Then I stopped, but that thread was still there with

00:04:44
the books I used to read. And now it's kind of. That spark is

00:04:47
there. And I thought to myself back in November,

00:04:50
I thought, well, if I can't play, at least I can

00:04:53
become part of the hobby. I can become part of the

00:04:56
universe by starting a YouTube channel. So I thought, you know,

00:04:59
here I am. Who hasn't played in forever? Who's going to

00:05:01
listen to me about Dungeons and Dragons. And I thought, well, what if it's

00:05:04
about not necessarily how to play or I'm

00:05:07
an expert, but it's just here's me as a 50 year

00:05:10
old newbie to the whole thing, getting

00:05:13
back into it and really trying to understand

00:05:16
what it's all about. You know, kind of a learning process, you

00:05:19
know, understanding and teaching, not teaching, it's a bad

00:05:22
word, and kind of conveying what it's like to live the D20 & D

00:05:25
lifestyle kind of thing. And so that's kind of what the channel is

00:05:28
all about. Dungeon Noob. And so that's where I

00:05:31
am now. And I'm still looking for a group and I know we'll talk,

00:05:33
I know we're going to talk a little bit later about the group that I did start

00:05:37
for a group for an institute called Kennedy Krieger where

00:05:39
I'm the dungeon master. But, you know, but, but yeah, that's

00:05:42
kind of the long, short history of it all.

00:05:45
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah. You know, it's so true when it comes

00:05:48
to starting a group as an adult.

00:05:51
Scheduling and if you go on any Reddit, if you go

00:05:53
on any forum, if you watch anybody talk about what is the

00:05:56
hardest thing about managing a group, it is the scheduling.

00:05:59
>> Ron Desi: It is, it is. And it's. I even, did a, one of my

00:06:02
first videos that I did for my channel was how to find a

00:06:05
group ``e and you know, they're all great

00:06:07
ideas, but when it comes down to it, it,

00:06:10
there's a kind of a bit of persistency and luck

00:06:13
involved kind of thing. But yeah, that's the, and I kind of say

00:06:16
it's the biggest dragon that you have to slay in D20 &

00:06:19
D as, as an adult.

00:06:20
So.

00:06:21
>> Clint Scheirer: Well, and you mentioned that you started young, right?

00:06:24
You started in eighth grade. Ish. at your

00:06:27
Catholic school. So you know, you're

00:06:30
currently. And this is the, the group that we were alluding

00:06:33
to earlier was you started a

00:06:36
game and volunteering, running games

00:06:39
for young adults, specifically young adults with

00:06:42
autism. How did that come about?

00:06:44
How did you, how did you get that group started and how has

00:06:47
it evolved over the past couple of years?

00:06:51
>> Ron Desi: Yeah, it's a great question. And it's it kind of fell out of the

00:06:54
sky to be completely honest with you. so yeah, there's a group, there's

00:06:57
an institute called Kennedy Krieger and they're

00:06:59
an institute that helps children and young

00:07:02
adults who have learning differences,

00:07:05
neurodiversity, differences that type of thing,

00:07:08
whether it's autism or what have you. And

00:07:10
I was. I always.

00:07:13
So even though I love where I live, I like getting out of

00:07:16
the house and so. And I'm sure we'll talk about this, but I'm

00:07:19
a professional spokesperson by trade, so

00:07:22
I'm always in my basement studio, you

00:07:24
know, 50% of the day, because I'm recording videos for

00:07:27
clients. So in the morning hours I go to

00:07:30
Panera. There's a Panera near where I live. And,

00:07:33
I've kind of become a fixture there because I'm there every single

00:07:36
morning, literally almost Monday through Sunday. You know, it's

00:07:39
like seven days a week. I get there around 7:00 and I

00:07:42
leave around 11, 12. And in that

00:07:44
time, this group from Kennedy Krieger, a

00:07:47
group of, four guys who were probably between the ages of

00:07:50
like 18 and 21, and their

00:07:53
case manager would come in into the cafe in the

00:07:56
morning. And the way the structure is, is there's this

00:07:59
one cool part of it where it's like this

00:08:02
box and it's kind of like a window. So it's kind of like a

00:08:04
windowed office. It's really nice and it's kind of

00:08:07
secluded from the rest of the restaurant, which I like. So

00:08:10
these guys come in and they prepare for whatever they're going to do in the

00:08:13
morning. The case manager does emails. They're all talking

00:08:16
and different things like that. And I

00:08:19
just started talking to them. I just started, you

00:08:22
know, you know, asking them what they were doing. So we became

00:08:25
friends, you know, just what friends do, what M movies do

00:08:28
you like? And that kind of thing. And they're a great group of guys.

00:08:30
Well, one day I was pulling. I pulled out my

00:08:33
monster manual, and I have two, the 2014

00:08:36
and the 2025 Monster Manual. And put it on

00:08:39
the desk that I. The standing desk that I

00:08:42
occupy there, so to speak. And I

00:08:45
was preparing for like a, video or a few shorts or whatever

00:08:48
for the YouTube channel. And they looked at it and they're like,

00:08:51
what's that? And so I gave it to them. And when I gave it to them, their

00:08:54
eyes lit up. They were like, what's this? They were looking at all the

00:08:57
monsters. And of course, D20 & D is known for its artwork

00:09:00
that's like quintessential D20 & D.

00:09:02
And they just love, like, pouring over and asking

00:09:05
questions about the monsters and whatever. And they were like, you know, can we

00:09:08
play one day? And this kind of thing. So I got to thinking,

00:09:11
I mean, I don't Know, maybe we can. So I talked to

00:09:14
the case manager who put me a contact with someone at the

00:09:17
institute who then, you know, I contacted

00:09:19
that person, went through all the, you know, the stuff that you have to

00:09:22
go through to become a volunteer. And now

00:09:25
every Monday, in fact, today we're recording this on a Monday

00:09:28
at 12:30 Today I go to a place near us called

00:09:31
the Game Haven. And we play an hour of

00:09:34
Dungeon and Dragons. And it's awesome because it's great because it

00:09:37
helps me be a part of the game. It helps

00:09:40
me, you know, as the Dungeon Master. I

00:09:43
have no idea what I'm doing being a newbie to this, but

00:09:46
it's, I've learned through the process of, you know,

00:09:49
what are, you know, how to, you know, do the saving throws and

00:09:52
you know, all of the stuff that you need to do as a Dungeon Master

00:09:54
and kind of run that game with these individuals. Individuals.

00:09:57
And they absolutely love it. And so that's kind of

00:10:00
the origin story of that and it's something that's,

00:10:03
you know, it's great for them. I feel like I'm giving back to the

00:10:06
community. They're having fun, I'm having fun. It's kind of like a win

00:10:09
win for everyone involved really.

00:10:12
>> Clint Scheirer: Is the Game Haven a store? Is it a, like

00:10:15
a restaurant?

00:10:15
>> Ron Desi: Yeah.

00:10:16
>> Clint Scheirer: Gaming restaurant.

00:10:16
>> Ron Desi: Yeah, yeah, Game Haven is a game store.

00:10:19
They primarily, it's like they have

00:10:22
it's, they have like tables everywhere

00:10:24
and it's opened's pretty much seven days a week

00:10:27
and people can come in and play everything from Magic the Gathering

00:10:30
to Pokemon to Dungeons to Dragons,

00:10:33
to like every friend, of mine who's a professional Dungeon

00:10:36
Master who I met on this whole journey, you know,

00:10:39
through getting back into D20 & D. she runs

00:10:42
one shot every. I think it's like the first Saturday

00:10:45
every month. And so I played a couple one shots and those were a lot of

00:10:48
fun. So yeah, the Game Haven is just, it's a game

00:10:50
store where you can kind of play different kinds of

00:10:53
games. They have board games set up. they have tournaments,

00:10:56
they have all kinds of different things. They have Adventure League nights for D20

00:10:59
& D, they have Pokemon tournaments, Magic gathering tournaments, all

00:11:02
that kind of stuff.

00:11:03
>> Clint Scheirer: Cool. We should give them a shout out into the episode. We'll, we'll put a

00:11:06
link to the Game Haven. Thank you for hosting, Ron. Every

00:11:09
Monday.

00:11:10
>> Ron Desi: Exactly. Hosting us with the Kennedy Kruar guys

00:11:13
and U. yeah, they're, they're great. The staff is awesome

00:11:16
there. and that's the thing about local game stores

00:11:18
is everyone thinks about, you know, talk about Amazon and

00:11:21
you talk about, you know, and Amazon is easy, I'll

00:11:24
admit, but at the same time, you have these game stores

00:11:27
and you go in there and you ask a question and they know

00:11:29
exactly you know, the answer, or if they don't know, they'll look it

00:11:32
up for you. And they're just, it's a great thing. So I think everyone should just, you

00:11:35
know, make sure rather than if you're going to buy the,

00:11:38
you know, any kind of gaming paraphernalia, try your local

00:11:41
game shop before you get to Amazon. You know, support the local business kind

00:11:44
of thing.

00:11:45
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah. And you know, local game stores are a great place to

00:11:48
find groups.

00:11:49
You mentioned that like once a month there's One shots that are being

00:11:52
run. Well, you know, a one shot adventure that happens one

00:11:55
and once and then it's done.

00:11:57
the characters may be done, but the people you're playing with may

00:12:00
show up on a regular basis.

00:12:02
>> Ron Desi: That's right. That's right. Yeah. And that's cool. Cool part about One Shots

00:12:05
is that, the person I know,

00:12:08
shout out to Jay, she's great dungeon master.

00:12:11
And she's actually, it's funny because I know we talked offline about, you

00:12:14
know, doing your own thing. And you know, what, what's that like in terms

00:12:17
of being maybe, you know, teaching people how to play dungeon and

00:12:19
dragons or whatever? Well, she's a professional dungeon master and I'm

00:12:22
helping her kind of get that off the ground.

00:12:25
And they hire her to come to the Game Haven and

00:12:28
she runs these one shots and it's cool because she runs through

00:12:31
like five different one shots. And so, you know,

00:12:34
people come in and, you notice that they're some of the same people

00:12:36
and other people kind of circle in and out. But then, you know, the

00:12:39
whole point of Dungeon of Dragons for me anyway is

00:12:42
the social aspect of things. And I think that

00:12:45
that's critical whether, whether it's D20 & D or any other

00:12:48
kind of tabletop role playing game is that there's that

00:12:51
social aspect that people often overlook.

00:12:54
And I think that that's something that's awesome. You know, in today's day and

00:12:56
age where you have everyone glued to their

00:12:59
screens, here you have, you know, a table full

00:13:02
of people who have no cell phones

00:13:04
and they're just in the moment, you know, playing

00:13:08
this game and acting out these characters and

00:13:10
killing, you know, goblins and whatever else

00:13:13
it might be.

00:13:13
>> Clint Scheirer: So, yeah, you know, side note, I have a friend

00:13:16
who's one of their parents has

00:13:19
dementia, Alzheimer's. And one of

00:13:22
the ways to combat those kind of mental

00:13:24
illnesses is social

00:13:27
interaction. That is one of the number one

00:13:30
ways to ward off, you know, take

00:13:33
away the isolation, bring a little community in. And

00:13:36
it's amazing how we're just built u, our brains are

00:13:38
built to flourish under that kind of environment.

00:13:42
>> Ron Desi: Yeah, you're right about there. There's this one. and

00:13:45
hope you don't mind me going off on a tangent.

00:13:46
>> Clint Scheirer: Oh yeah, go off on a tangent. It's great.

00:13:48
>> Ron Desi: Causing the timeline to skew off into an alternate

00:13:51
tangent. When I was getting back into the whole Dungeon of Dragons, I got on

00:13:53
YouTube and was just kind of immersing myself

00:13:56
in lots of different videos. And there's this one

00:13:58
documentary and we could put a

00:14:01
link to it in the show notes. and it was something about

00:14:05
slaying your dragons or something like that. And it was about

00:14:08
the resurgence of Dungeons and Dragons. But they were

00:14:11
also talking about how critical it's been.

00:14:14
Like they've actually done research like scientific studies and

00:14:17
peer reviewed journals that individuals

00:14:19
with learning differences, learning disabilities,

00:14:22
people with Alzheimer's, people who have

00:14:26
depression. In fact, there's this one where

00:14:28
Matt Mercer, who is the DM for Critical

00:14:31
Role, a person was interviewing him

00:14:34
and said, I want to play for you a clip

00:14:37
of someone who you helped. And he's like, okay.

00:14:40
So they played this clip and

00:14:43
the individual, this guy was literally

00:14:45
on the brink of suicide, literally. And

00:14:48
he was watching Critical Role got into Dungeons and Dragons,

00:14:51
starting having social interactions with individuals

00:14:54
and he's like, if I didn't come across Critical

00:14:57
Role and done into Dragons, he's like, I wouldn't be here.

00:15:00
And like Matt Mercer was tearing up in the whole bit. And

00:15:03
it's, I think these games, these tabletop role playing

00:15:06
games, I think, you know, when we were in the 80s, it was for

00:15:09
dorks in the basement kind of thing. And I think it's grown up to the

00:15:12
point where now I think people understand that it's a lot

00:15:15
more than that. It's more than just, you know, a game people

00:15:18
play. It's truly a way that you can interact

00:15:21
that social interaction that you get and these

00:15:24
role playing games, you're accessing parts of

00:15:27
your brain that you usually don't access. Critical

00:15:29
thinking and puzzle solving and all of that kind of stuff.

00:15:32
So yeah, a little bit of a tangent, but I just wanted to bring that up since you

00:15:35
mentioned about, you know, the social interaction is so important

00:15:38
for Individuals who, you know, have Alzheimer's

00:15:41
and etc.

00:15:42
>> Clint Scheirer: Well, an RPG therapy has become a thing, you

00:15:45
know.

00:15:45
>> Ron Desi: Yeah.

00:15:46
>> Clint Scheirer: Very qualified counselors and

00:15:49
mental health professionals have started. And maybe they've used

00:15:52
it for many years, but I've started hearing that they use it

00:15:55
as a way to help people go through emotional

00:15:57
experiences that were traumatic in

00:16:00
their life, and otherwise they would have never processed it.

00:16:03
So that's kind of cool.

00:16:05
>> Ron Desi: Yeah.

00:16:05
>> Clint Scheirer: And it's.

00:16:06
>> Ron Desi: It's just, you know, not to. Not to go too personal, but, like, you know, it's one

00:16:09
of those things. Like, I started going to therapy, which I think

00:16:12
everyone should do.

00:16:13
>> Clint Scheirer: I also go to therapy.

00:16:14
>> Ron Desi: You're in good company, know, you know, it's like. It's one of the. It's. I'm

00:16:17
glad the stigma has kind of gone away and, you know, for a long time, it's.

00:16:20
It's almost like finding a D20 & D group is trying to find a therapist that, kind of

00:16:23
matched your personality. It's almost like dating, you know, trying to find

00:16:25
someone. And I finally found someone, and we were going

00:16:28
through it, and I don't go all the details, but

00:16:31
I was talking to this person, and

00:16:34
I made a D20 & D. And she was like. And I was explaining,

00:16:37
and she said, well, what you're describing is kind of like a

00:16:40
rogue. And I was like, well, that's interesting. So it was

00:16:43
interesting because she was even pulling in

00:16:45
parts of D20 & D which made it. I was like, oh, well, that makes a lot

00:16:48
of sense now kind of thing. So, you know, it is

00:16:51
interesting how you can take those pieces of it and

00:16:54
apply it to your own life kind of thing.

00:16:56
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah, it's, it's definitely changed my life. Before

00:16:59
I knew about Dungeons and Dragons, I learned

00:17:02
about it in 2015. Like, that's how new

00:17:05
I am to the hobby. And, you know, I've learned a lot of

00:17:08
my history about it and a lot of the thingsus. I dug into

00:17:11
it. I was like, so into it.

00:17:13
>> Ron Desi: Yeah.

00:17:14
>> Clint Scheirer: But I just feel like I've been missing out for years. You know,

00:17:16
I'm only 10 years in, and it's wonderful. It's so

00:17:19
cool, the relationships that I've gotten to make.

00:17:22
Yeah.

00:17:22
>> Ron Desi: Now, quick question. Do you play? any. Have you found a group by

00:17:25
chance, either online or in person?

00:17:28
>> Clint Scheirer: It's been. It's been back and forth, so I am

00:17:30
usually the forever gm. You know, it's kind of like if

00:17:33
you want it, you got toa run it. And so I've

00:17:36
had Several groups. I had one that used to physically come to my

00:17:39
house before COVID And we would meet once a

00:17:41
monthh. we'd meet once a month for an adventure that I

00:17:44
found on the DMs Guild kind of connected to drive through

00:17:47
RPG. U Mt Black was the author

00:17:50
of the adventure and it was kind of a mixture

00:17:53
between fantasy and sci fi.

00:17:56
So it was. It was like there we were in a fantasy world, but

00:17:59
there were remnants of like, hey, there could be some.

00:18:01
There could be some advanced alien technology happening

00:18:04
here.

00:18:05
>> Ron Desi: Oh, s. That's pretty cool.

00:18:06
>> Clint Scheirer: Y We never pulled out the blasters or the lightsabers,

00:18:09
but u still really fun. And then

00:18:12
Covid dissolved that, right? Because nobody, nobody could be

00:18:15
around one another. ###h so from there I moved

00:18:17
online and I've had groups that

00:18:20
go for stents of maybe like six to seven

00:18:23
weeks. But finding that forever, you

00:18:26
know, 50 year group, you know, I know it

00:18:29
has't been around 50 years, but that group that just goes

00:18:32
on forever. I'm still looking.

00:18:34
>> Ron Desi: Yeah, same here. It's like I have this. There's

00:18:37
this romantic fantasy of finding this group and you get together

00:18:39
with these great friends and it's like you play. And like,

00:18:42
you know, when I'm 75 years old, you know, if I get

00:18:45
to that point in my life, you know, I'm still playing D20 & D with

00:18:48
this group kind of thing. It's like, you know, that's. That's. I mean,

00:18:51
that's what I'm looking for. I don't know if that's possible, but that's. That's what

00:18:54
I'm looking for. And I think that's you. Sounds like you are too. So.

00:18:57
>> Clint Scheirer: Y. I told my wife my dream is that one day

00:19:00
when I retire, I will just go to my local game

00:19:02
shop and I will volunteer for free running all the

00:19:05
games I've ever wanted for anybody who wants to join.

00:19:08
that would be. That would be living the life.

00:19:11
>> Ron Desi: That would be that. It's ironic. My friend Jay, who's

00:19:14
the professional dm, she's. She's trying to make that work. Now she's

00:19:17
a teacher full time, but she's trying

00:19:20
to get to that point where she can be

00:19:22
a professional dungeon master as. Because she's like, that would

00:19:25
be my dream job kind of thing. Which, which makes

00:19:28
sense. And I know there's a part of the community and I don't know if I'll piss

00:19:31
off some people watching or listening to this, but

00:19:34
there's a large segment of the population of

00:19:37
tabletop role playing game, players and what have

00:19:40
you, that when they hear a professional Dungeon Master

00:19:43
who charges and it's like this, they

00:19:45
can't believe it happens. I'll never sell out. And I'm like,

00:19:49
you know, it's Dungeon Masters and Game

00:19:52
Masters. They are. It's a lot of work. I

00:19:54
see all the work she puts into it and she's good at

00:19:57
what she does. Like, she's really, really good at it. And I'm

00:20:00
like, you know, every game needs, you

00:20:03
know, if, let's say if we were lived in the same

00:20:05
location and was like, me, you and two other people

00:20:08
and we didn't know, you know, we didn't want to be Dungeon Masters, we'like we got to

00:20:11
find one, you know, and so I have no problem

00:20:14
with, with Dungeon Masters charging, you know, for that

00:20:17
skill set. We, we pay people to mow our lawn, we pay people to

00:20:20
do all kinds of things. So, you know, not to go off

00:20:23
that tangent, but, you know, I think that that's, a, I think it's a viable

00:20:26
business opportunity to be honest with.

00:20:28
>> Clint Scheirer: Absolutely. And if anybody is interested, or if

00:20:30
you're interested.

00:20:31
>> Ron Desi: Ron.

00:20:31
>> Clint Scheirer: And learning more about professional Dungeon Masters,

00:20:34
episode 39 of the CTG, we

00:20:37
actually had David North, East, who lives out in

00:20:40
the uk. He is a professional dm.

00:20:43
That's what he does. And a lot of times he will,

00:20:46
he has that struggle of like, what is my value?

00:20:49
Yeah, somebody who's storytelling and putting

00:20:52
everything together and, and purchasing different

00:20:55
programs, especially online, you know, if you want like the music

00:20:58
and the, the virtual tabletop, like, he,

00:21:00
he's the one who's providing a lot of those subscription

00:21:03
services so that you can have that full immersive experience.

00:21:06
>> Ron Desi: So I'll also send that to her because I think that would be a

00:21:09
great episode. I'll listen to that too. That's, that's awesome.

00:21:11
>> Clint Scheirer: But yeah, you can just tell her she's worth it. She's worth every

00:21:14
dime and, should keep doing what she's doing. I

00:21:17
believe it. There are people I used to be in that camp, like, why would I

00:21:20
pay somebody to do something that I

00:21:23
enjoy and that I can do myself?

00:21:26
And the real question you have to ask is, do I

00:21:29
have the time to do it and

00:21:32
am I enjoying it? If that's true, then, yeah, go ahead and do it yourself.

00:21:34
But if you need somebody to help you out with all that other stuff, a pro

00:21:37
GM would be a perfect solution.

00:21:40
>> Ron Desi: Yeah, I think so. And like, for instance, you know, and if there is

00:21:43
someone, like, he's just like you just said,

00:21:44
Clint.Scheirer@claimtogamepodcast.com is that if there's someone out there and you

00:21:47
love the prep, you love being a dungeon master,

00:21:50
you love being that game master who kind of

00:21:53
crafts the story and, you know, and really

00:21:56
enjoy that. That dynamic, then

00:21:58
definitely, you know, you know, find your group and go for it.

00:22:01
But. And you know, for me in the Kennedy Krieger

00:22:04
group, you know, it's. It's great for me because it's.

00:22:07
It's. I call it D20 & D light because

00:22:10
I don't follow all the. All the rules. It would get way too

00:22:12
complex for me and for them. So it's D20 & D

00:22:15
light. But, you know, I'm having fun.

00:22:18
But if I had to do what a dungeon master does and

00:22:21
learn all of that, I was like, I feel like I

00:22:24
probably would be charging. I know that sounds like a

00:22:26
capitalist, you know, mindset, but I'm like, the amount of

00:22:29
work a good DM puts into it to make

00:22:31
it immersive, I mean, that's.

00:22:34
That's something else.

00:22:36
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah, it's. It's a mind shift for sure. In the

00:22:38
hobby now.

00:22:40
>> Ron Desi: Exactly.

00:22:40
>> Clint Scheirer: Thinking about that, you know, planning these sessions,

00:22:44
what's a typical game session, like, with your specific

00:22:47
group that we've been referencing several times? Like,

00:22:50
what it. What is it like? You know, how do you set the tone?

00:22:53
How do you make it so that everyone feels comfortable regardless of

00:22:56
where they are on that spectrum?

00:22:58
>> Ron Desi: Yeah, that's. That's like a really good question. So, I'll

00:23:01
be completely honest with you. I wasn't quite sure how to start

00:23:04
because I, don't have experience with

00:23:07
neurod. Neurodivergent individuals. you know,

00:23:10
obviously at Panera, we were, ah,

00:23:13
I'm there every day and they came every day. So I got to know them as

00:23:16
friends. So I, you know, was comfortable and understood them from that

00:23:19
standpoint. But in terms of teaching them a

00:23:21
game which can be extremely complex,

00:23:24
you know, I was like, where do I start? So I

00:23:27
actually went to AI, of all

00:23:30
places, and I was like, I just had a conversation.

00:23:33
I use AI probably more than I probably should in my life. But

00:23:36
anyway, so, yeah, so I was

00:23:38
Talking to the A.I. between Chachptt, Claude and

00:23:41
Gemini, and just asking about different things. And I was like, you

00:23:44
know, how do they create a character? So let's just start there. How do we create a

00:23:47
character when there's. They got a rolell they gott. You know, there's

00:23:50
all the classes and all these other types of things and the weapons

00:23:53
D. And it came up with this

00:23:56
genius concept which was create little

00:23:58
cards of all of

00:24:01
the classes, let's say so from Ranger

00:24:04
Bard, what have you. And there was these little cards that I had

00:24:07
AI create and I cut them out and it had you

00:24:10
know, the symbol of like a ranger. And then it said

00:24:12
choose this if you like. And it gave, you know,

00:24:15
kind of if you were, if you liked

00:24:18
bows and arrows and like simple things that they

00:24:21
could understand that I could teach them at the same time. And

00:24:24
then we were like, okay, so what about strength? So what I did

00:24:27
was it said to create. I can't remember

00:24:30
how many trait, not traits but

00:24:32
like strength and charisma. I can't remember how many there are, but like eight

00:24:35
maybe something like that. And so print eight

00:24:38
cards and have different numbers

00:24:41
on them. And then the numbers had to add up to a

00:24:44
certain amount and so they could then take the card. So it

00:24:47
was more rather than just a thought provoking exercise

00:24:50
with a, you know, you're writing down on a piece of paper. They were

00:24:53
literally physically dealing with cards that

00:24:55
they could interact with and that kind of thing. And they love

00:24:58
that. And I've noticed working with them it's

00:25:01
about dice rolls, it's about the battles, it's about,

00:25:04
you know, those types of things.

00:25:07
And so that's what they enjoy. Like, like when they,

00:25:10
the first thing they want to do is start getting into a battle and start rolling

00:25:13
dice. Like that's the most fun. So rather than

00:25:15
even going into. I'm looking over here because I have like the

00:25:18
starter pack. I think it's the

00:25:20
dragons of something Ale like a shipwreck aisle.

00:25:23
I can't remember which one it was. but anyway, even that one for

00:25:26
me, I'm looking through it and I'm like, there's no way I'm going to

00:25:29
memorize and get it. Just even for me, I was like, I don't have

00:25:32
time to like really delve into it.

00:25:34
So I worked with AI to create a

00:25:37
campaign and now we're in

00:25:39
week, I think 8 or 9 of the campaign. I think

00:25:42
it's 9 of the campaign. And you know, so we,

00:25:45
I talk to the AI and I tell it how the last session

00:25:48
went. What were some of the issues? Where did things stall out

00:25:51
a little bit. And so each, I've noticed each

00:25:54
session gets a little bit better because I'm

00:25:56
learning how they learn. And then, you know, I talk to the

00:25:59
AI and It gives me some suggestions and I go back out there and we

00:26:02
test some things. So so like a good example

00:26:05
today was I wanted

00:26:08
to. Two people are going to be missing. So it's just a group of

00:26:11
two today. And so I wanted a little easier

00:26:13
adventure and the AI was like, well how about if we do

00:26:16
puzzles and challenges? And I'm like that's good for all of them

00:26:19
together, but not with the two individuals who are here.

00:26:22
These two really like the dice roll. They like the dice, they like

00:26:25
the battles, they like the seeing the little. I create little

00:26:28
tokens versus like actual miniatures. I create I print

00:26:31
out little round tokens and they like to see the monsters on

00:26:34
the tokens and everything else. And so that's kind of how I

00:26:37
created today's campaign. It was based on talking to

00:26:40
an AI, understanding, you know, these

00:26:43
individuals and kind of how they've grown in

00:26:46
the game as we've gone along. So long story

00:26:49
short, that's kind of how I've developed this. I think the

00:26:52
next thing at knowing what I know about these guys, I

00:26:55
think what I'm going to do next time once we're finish this

00:26:57
campaign, I'm actually probably going to go with one of the D20 &

00:27:00
D board games. Like there's the there's the Drist board

00:27:03
game. There's a few board games that are out there that are

00:27:06
D20 & D specific but it's more, you

00:27:09
know, you're rolling, it's more kind of fast paced action.

00:27:11
It takes less of the storytelling outus I've

00:27:14
noticed they'they like the stories but it's not really

00:27:17
what gets them, you know, excited about things.

00:27:20
So that's probably where I'm going to go next.

00:27:23
>> Clint Scheirer: You know what I'm as I'm listening Ron. Some things that I

00:27:26
heard, just to summarize it for the listeners, you

00:27:29
use manipulatives, right? You're using physical

00:27:32
things for them to be able to move around,

00:27:35
to take some very complex, maybe like

00:27:37
abstract concepts and make them

00:27:40
more solid. So you mentioned, you know, for

00:27:43
the cards, I think that's genius. You took

00:27:46
story functions of the character archetypes

00:27:49
like if I'm going to be a rogue, I'm going to be shooting a lot

00:27:52
of bow and arrows. You know, I'm mean there's a lot of arrows that

00:27:55
are gonna be zinging past. And so

00:27:58
you're taking like what is this person going to be doing

00:28:01
if they choose this type of class? And you

00:28:04
made it a physical choice for them to be Able to pluck. I think that's

00:28:06
awesome. The tokens. Little tip to

00:28:09
everybody when I do. so I also print out the. The tokens. I

00:28:12
usually just use printer paper and then I like to stick

00:28:15
mine on furniture sliders. So if you find

00:28:18
like one inch. Yeah, one inch by one

00:28:20
inch. Little felt furniture sliders happen to

00:28:23
make really good tokens.

00:28:25
>> Ron Desi: Can I show you real quick?

00:28:26
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

00:28:28
>> Ron Desi: Let me show you real quick. let's see here.

00:28:31
>> Clint Scheirer: No how here

00:28:34
it'on a field trip.

00:28:37
>> Ron Desi: Everyone I know, right? Why does this ever happen?

00:28:40
Podcast.

00:28:41
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah.

00:28:43
>> Ron Desi: All right, so let me see. Where's the u. All right, so this is one of

00:28:46
their characters. Let's see.

00:28:49
I can get.

00:28:52
>> Clint Scheirer: There we go.

00:28:53
>> Ron Desi: That's kind of what I do. It's a one inch I print it

00:28:56
out on Avery printer paper.

00:28:59
which is like two inch.

00:29:02
what is it? Two inch, adhesives. And then what I do is

00:29:05
I went to Home Depot and no and I'm sorry

00:29:08
Amazon. And I got these wooden discs

00:29:11
and I just take the little wooden disck, slap it on

00:29:14
and so that's kind of how I do it. And they love it. It's a cool

00:29:17
little, little thing. So. Yeah.

00:29:18
>> Clint Scheirer: Does it have a washer on the bottom? I saw like a little metal

00:29:21
circle.

00:29:22
>> Ron Desi: Yeah, that was a washer. I took those off.

00:29:25
I wanted to make them a little heavier. But then it's.

00:29:28
Once you do this and you multiply it times

00:29:31
like 15 pieces, it gets really heavy. So I don't do

00:29:34
that anymore. I figured one is niceuse, it's got some

00:29:37
heft to it. But like I said, you put 1520 in

00:29:40
a box and it gets a little heavy. So.

00:29:42
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah, well the furniture sliders can blow away in the

00:29:44
wind. So it might be. Maybe I'll upgrade to my.

00:29:47
To wooden discs off of V. Amazon. That's great.

00:29:50
>> Ron Desi: That's cool. So when you do it so you do the you small like the

00:29:53
1 inch ones. That's what.

00:29:54
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah. And the cool thing is you start to build your

00:29:57
collection. So people who do miniatures who,

00:30:00
who like the manipulatives, who like you know, the

00:30:03
dungeon, pieces that you can get crafted by

00:30:06
different companieseah. you know, they'll start to build

00:30:09
their their D20 & D,

00:30:11
manipulative collection.

00:30:13
>> Ron Desi: Yeah.

00:30:13
>> Clint Scheirer: And what I've learned is now I have most monsters as

00:30:16
these little felt tips, you know. And you can get the bigger

00:30:19
sliders because you know usually a two by two

00:30:22
would be I don't know if that's a large creature.

00:30:25
you know there's the different sizes. Most, most

00:30:27
humanoids are medium. And then as you

00:30:30
get bigger and you get to like we were talking about the Tarask,

00:30:33
you know, the legendary creatures. Those take up a little bit

00:30:36
more. You'd have to have like a giant sized

00:30:39
furniture.

00:30:40
>> Ron Desi: A fr. Get a Frisbee for, for that one.

00:30:42
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah, yeah. that's cool.

00:30:44
>> Ron Desi: I didn't even think of the furniture. Sliders are interesting.

00:30:47
I like that idea. And yeah, I guess you, you can get those at Home Depot

00:30:50
or anywhere really.

00:30:51
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah, it was very inexpensive and I got them in a bag. I think

00:30:54
the hardest part was I couldn't get like tons of the smaller

00:30:57
sizes. Cause you typically use the medium sized creatures 1 inch

00:31:00
by 1 inch more often. but anyway, that's,

00:31:03
that's the DIY version for those of you guys. Like, I don't wa. Want to be

00:31:06
cutting stuff out. Just go online.

00:31:09
>> Ron Desi: Yeah, that's great. And that's why I got stickers. Because

00:31:12
at first I was like cutting them out and like glue stick and I was like

00:31:15
this is taking way too long. So now I just print out the stickers and slap

00:31:18
them on. And then, then there's the other trick which is u,

00:31:21
my friend Jay, what she does is

00:31:24
she's got the. You probably have seen it. It's paper folded

00:31:27
and then in the middle she puts a penny.

00:31:29
She like tapes a penny in the middle. So it's like a heavier little

00:31:32
thing. Yeah. And it's a. That's what I did for my first

00:31:34
one. But it still took a while to like cut out, fold

00:31:37
it, put the penny in and stuff like that. So.

00:31:40
>> Clint Scheirer: And in transport I could see myself just squishing

00:31:43
that new oblivion.

00:31:45
>> Ron Desi: Exactly, exactly. So yeah.

00:31:47
>> Clint Scheirer: Cool. So we're using manipulatives. We're trying to make abstract

00:31:50
more physical. U, take out, you know, still have

00:31:53
storytelling but not make it the main focus. I love

00:31:56
all of these tips, you know.

00:31:57
And I guess the other thing I wanted to talk about was

00:32:00
in what ways do you see that clear rules.

00:32:04
Clear rules in D20 & D, having an, you know,

00:32:07
this is what you do in this situation. How does that help

00:32:09
these individuals, or anybody be able

00:32:12
to navigate in social interactions? So the turn, taking

00:32:15
the problem solving, the puzzle solving. Like how do the

00:32:18
rules assist in these in your

00:32:21
group?

00:32:22
>> Ron Desi: Yeah, that's a good question too because one of the things

00:32:25
that I had to do is to make sure that and I think all

00:32:28
Dungeon Masters do this and some of them do it and I do it on the

00:32:31
fly. And I think a lot of them may plan it. You have to know,

00:32:33
it's like anything else in life. If you're going to give a presentation, you have to know your

00:32:36
audience. Right? this is the same thing if you're a

00:32:39
Dungeon Master, you have to know your audience. If you're playing with a

00:32:42
bunch of people who've never played before, your approach is going to

00:32:45
be completely different than if you're playing with group that's been

00:32:48
playing for 10 years and they kind of know the rules inside and out.

00:32:51
So with that said, with this group of

00:32:53
individuals, what I did was there are certain rules that

00:32:56
we abide by and kind of the basics.

00:32:59
And I kind of just did it by the fly. I didn't, like, look

00:33:02
up anything. I didn't ask AI. I just thought of, you know, what are

00:33:05
some of the things that they would be able to really understand and

00:33:08
grasp immediately and stuff like armor class, like

00:33:11
the basic, basic stuff. You know, there's armor class and there's,

00:33:14
you know, when you're trying to. And I've also

00:33:16
introduced rules as we've gone along. Like, for

00:33:19
instance, I never did like, saving throws

00:33:22
in the beginning. And then I slowly introduced

00:33:25
saving throws. So if someone wanted to do

00:33:28
an investigation, you're like, well, I'm going to check out the altar.

00:33:31
It's like, okay, well, what I want you to do is look on your sheet

00:33:34
and look at, you know, investigation and what does

00:33:37
that say? And kind of thing. And so what I would do, it's oay, then you

00:33:39
got a roll. And then so it's like this slow

00:33:42
build up of the rules. And I first started, it was pretty much just you, the

00:33:45
basis, you know, armor class, hit points. you

00:33:48
know, I didn't even do strength checks. It was a very

00:33:51
basic role kind of thing. And now we're at the point where they

00:33:54
understand what saving throws are. Not all of them. I

00:33:57
don't do it. Like, I listen to a lot of D20

00:34:00
& D podcasts now. I've kind of,

00:34:03
kind of put my business podcasts on the side. Now I'm listening

00:34:06
to, I think it's called Dice Shame and Roll the Bones or those

00:34:09
are awesome podcasts. And anyway, nothing

00:34:12
that complex where it's like every single thing they do, there's a

00:34:15
saving throw or, a, you know, or a check of

00:34:18
some type or whatever it might be. And they've also

00:34:21
learned about, you know, if they have a strength as a

00:34:24
strength modifier. And what does that mean? So it's

00:34:27
kind of evolved from the simple, you know,

00:34:30
taking little tokens, which we still use, but in terms of using

00:34:33
those cards and, you know, trying

00:34:35
to figure that out and introducing rules slowly

00:34:39
to them, building up to where they are now, which is they

00:34:41
understand the game at a more complex level.

00:34:44
And what's really cool is

00:34:47
introducing other things like puzzles, because

00:34:50
I did this one puzzle where. Do you remember

00:34:52
in Indiana Jones, Last Crusade? Do you remember? Did

00:34:55
you ever see that movie?

00:34:56
>> Clint Scheirer: That's the best one. That's the best one.

00:34:59
>> Ron Desi: By far. By far.

00:35:00
>> Clint Scheirer: John Connery may be a part of that. I don't know.

00:35:03
>> Ron Desi: But Junior, I know that was. That was just.

00:35:06
Yeah, that was probably. Probably in my top 10

00:35:09
movies. I mean, that was a really good movie. And,

00:35:12
the last scene where he had to pick the cup

00:35:15
and, you know, there are all

00:35:18
these jeweled cups, and he picked the one that was the

00:35:20
most simple, which would be, you know, from, you

00:35:23
know, the son of a carpenter would have a simple cup.

00:35:26
>> Clint Scheirer: You have chosen wisely.

00:35:30
>> Ron Desi: Well, I did something similar for them, which was they

00:35:32
had to pick, a seed. And all

00:35:35
the other ones were, you know, gold and silver and platinum and

00:35:38
they shined and they had a certain hum to them when you

00:35:41
held them. And then there was just one that just felt like an

00:35:44
acorn. And the tip

00:35:47
was, which one brings life?

00:35:49
And of course, when they first started, they were like, I want to do the

00:35:52
gold one and said the gold one. And the punishment

00:35:55
was if they got it wrong, all of them

00:35:58
lost 10 hit points. So I said, a

00:36:00
blast of energy comes forth and

00:36:03
you all of a sudden, nothing. You't. You didn't get hurt, but you feel

00:36:06
just more tired.

00:36:08
>> Clint Scheirer: He chose

00:36:10
poorly.

00:36:11
>> Ron Desi: And each of you take. Reduce your hit points by

00:36:14
10. And then they made the wrong choice

00:36:17
again. And then I said, and then you kind of have to

00:36:20
like the character who was the

00:36:22
NPC who was telling them what they had to do. He was

00:36:25
like, I will give you one more chance.

00:36:28
And in this time, remember which one

00:36:31
gives life. And the one kid was like, I got

00:36:34
it. It's the acorn. It's the only one that actually

00:36:37
gives life. And so it's like those moments

00:36:40
that. That really. It's like, it sparks

00:36:42
that creativity you could sell that. They were all then excited by

00:36:45
it. And so it was really cool.

00:36:47
So I think that that's kind of how I get

00:36:50
the game going from its very simplistic roots to Kind

00:36:53
of where we are now. So I think that that's, you know, kind of cool,

00:36:56
which is why we've all been at that table where,

00:36:59
you know, the something's on the line. Even, one shot I was

00:37:02
in, something was on the line and you need

00:37:05
to roll something good, you need to. Or something bad's gonna

00:37:08
happen. And that one person rolls a nat 20

00:37:10
and you give the high five across the table. Everyone

00:37:13
cheers. I mean, you can't beat that. I mean, you just can't be

00:37:16
that, you know, stupid cell phone'not going to give you that.

00:37:19
>> Clint Scheirer: You know. I have three thoughts from what you were sharing

00:37:22
your progressive scaffolding in the learning

00:37:25
world. You are starting small, building on their

00:37:28
knowledge of the game, expanding as they move

00:37:31
forward. It is genius. That's awesome. the

00:37:34
other thing is, you're stealing like an artist. I don't know if you ever read that

00:37:37
book, but, I have't.

00:37:38
>> Ron Desi: I should. I've heard of it. Yeah.

00:37:40
>> Clint Scheirer: Taking from Indiana. I mean, that's exactly it.

00:37:43
Like these movies and these books, you know, there's a

00:37:46
reason they resonate with us. It's because there

00:37:48
is a clear, there's a clear

00:37:51
problem that needs to be solved.

00:37:54
And the progression of solving that problem is what makes it

00:37:57
exciting for us to live in the story. So.

00:38:00
Yeah. And the third movie is the best. Totally. I

00:38:03
just saw the night being like, you chose poorly.

00:38:06
>> Ron Desi: That was the best part. You chose

00:38:08
poorlyah not

00:38:11
phenomenal.

00:38:12
>> Clint Scheirer: And then the other part, this leads into another

00:38:15
question. Something on the line,

00:38:18
taking risks. So in the real

00:38:20
world, it's hard to

00:38:23
step out and take risks. Right. Ca. Becausee it feels like

00:38:26
the consequences if poorly

00:38:28
chosen, are not quite as,

00:38:31
desirable and they may feel more long lasting. But

00:38:33
games.

00:38:34
>> Ron Desi: Yeah.

00:38:35
>> Clint Scheirer: Like we mentioned with tabletop therapy, allow us to

00:38:38
explore things that we may not be able to explore.

00:38:40
>> Ron Desi: Yeah.

00:38:41
>> Clint Scheirer: You know, go on adventures that we never would go on. You know, when

00:38:44
are you going to meet a giant legendary red

00:38:47
dragon in the real world? You wouldn't. And, and

00:38:50
so that risk taking idea,

00:38:52
my question is like, have you noticed that the

00:38:55
participants in your games

00:38:58
are taking more risk or have they

00:39:01
learned like, you know, are they more cautious, are

00:39:04
they more bold? Or how do they balance that, that risk

00:39:07
taking feeling?

00:39:08
>> Ron Desi: Yeah, it's, it's funny because like in the real world,

00:39:11
I don't know, but because. And I think that I'm under

00:39:14
the philosophy like these games truly can

00:39:17
change your life. and I'll talk about that a little later. But,

00:39:20
you know, I truly think that if you adopt some

00:39:23
of the teachings and the different

00:39:26
classes have different strengths and weaknesses,

00:39:29
and I think that you could learn from these

00:39:32
games. And actually, if you did, it talks about risk taking

00:39:35
and the consequences too. I mean, consequences

00:39:38
are a big part of making a decision. And if you make a

00:39:41
decision in D20 & D, it could result in

00:39:44
the death of your character or someone else kind of thing. And

00:39:47
so in the real life, I'm not sure.

00:39:50
but I know in the game it has, because in the

00:39:53
beginning they were very cautious about

00:39:55
things. And they've noticed.

00:39:58
They've. It's one of those things. How do I say it?

00:40:01
They were cautious because they weren't quite sure what the game was

00:40:04
going to do. They didn't understand kind of like where the game was going to

00:40:07
be or what the consequences were going to be. But once

00:40:10
they start to understand the consequences that I'm battling

00:40:13
a monster and if I do this,

00:40:15
then that's going to happen. So the next time I want

00:40:18
to do that, I probably shouldn't do it that way.

00:40:21
And so they are learning as they're going

00:40:24
along the process of, you know, what it's

00:40:27
like to be the character that they're in. And they don't do the

00:40:30
rolepl play. They don't do the kind of whole roleplay thing. It's more or

00:40:33
less, you know, my character is doing this. But

00:40:36
still, even then they go. They went from being very

00:40:39
cautious to then kind of like, okay, I'm going to

00:40:41
try doing something. Let's say if it's, you

00:40:44
know, opening a chest, like, like here, here's a good

00:40:47
example. They were, they defeated. I think

00:40:50
it was 2G knolls. And there was a chest, you know,

00:40:53
a treasure chest there. And they go up to it

00:40:56
and the one guy was like, I'm just going to open it

00:40:58
up. And the one. And the other guy who never

00:41:01
played D20 & D before, he's like, don't do it. It could be a

00:41:04
mimic kind of thing. And so right away

00:41:07
they were like, oh. Because if it were. And of

00:41:10
course, on the spot, what did I do? I made it a mimic just

00:41:13
because it was more fun that way. But it kind

00:41:16
of showed that the one guy just wanted to go up and do it,

00:41:19
and the other one was like, no, no, no, no. That could be a mimic.

00:41:22
And it's. I guess. It's like. I guess by looking at

00:41:25
the books that I gave them, they probably saw it and they thought it was cool.

00:41:28
but, yeah, They've kind of gotten to that place where

00:41:30
they're experimenting more and they understand that certain

00:41:33
things in the game, if you do them, they could have

00:41:36
consequences. And if I do, there's another puzzle that we're

00:41:39
go goingna be talking about that we're go going toa do today in the campaign

00:41:42
puzzles. And I guarantee they're going toa

00:41:45
approach it differently because of the puzzle that

00:41:48
we had with the acorn and the other seeds there.

00:41:50
So you know, Ss. And it's cool watching these

00:41:53
guys learn as they're going along because

00:41:56
you know, like anything else, if you're dming, if you're

00:41:59
dming a brand new group of individuals, it's cool to watch

00:42:02
them get excited by the game and learn from the game and

00:42:04
to, you know, learn as they progress as a character.

00:42:07
So it's kind of cool.

00:42:08
>> Clint Scheirer: They're building confidence, they're building

00:42:11
caution. They're finding a balance between

00:42:13
caution and confidence.

00:42:15
>> Ron Desi: Yeah.

00:42:16
>> Clint Scheirer: And social skills. So I mean that goes beyond. Right. We

00:42:19
do learn from these games and we can bring all this stuff

00:42:22
into all of it. you know, I

00:42:24
guess I love the stories that you're telling, right?

00:42:27
The Mimic, the you know, two of the

00:42:30
books that have changed the way that

00:42:33
I game master. So the first one

00:42:36
is the Lazy Dungeon Master. And there's

00:42:39
a subsequent one called Return of the Lazy Dungeon Master by

00:42:42
Mike Sha.

00:42:43
>> Ron Desi: I haven't heard of those two.

00:42:44
>> Clint Scheirer: Phenomenal. And if you wanna audiobook em, you know, they're on

00:42:47
audible so you can listen to them. I actually like having the

00:42:50
physical copy because it just has such a wealth

00:42:52
of. If I could boil it down into

00:42:55
like one lesson, it's that

00:42:58
it doesn't become real until the players make

00:43:01
it real. And you can do a lot of planning,

00:43:05
but sometimes what they come up with on their own is way

00:43:07
better than anything that you could have came up

00:43:10
with. And you can lean into it like that idea with the mimic,

00:43:13
you're just like oh, yeah, of course. And then they're like oh, you knew it was

00:43:16
gonna be a mimic. And you're like no, actually I didn't. You guys came up with

00:43:19
that. So that's one, that's tr. The

00:43:22
other is Robin D. Law's Laws

00:43:25
of Good game Mastering. so Robin D.

00:43:27
Laws, he works for or is at least a

00:43:30
consultant for

00:43:32
Pelegr Press. He came

00:43:35
up with games like the Yellow King

00:43:38
role playing game. He came up with the Gum Shoes,

00:43:41
role playing system. So outside the realm of D20

00:43:44
& D. But that, that particular book, Robin's

00:43:47
Law, Laws of Good Game Mastering, goes

00:43:50
into what kind of players are you playing with? And

00:43:53
you're already thinking that like I'm playing with two

00:43:56
people today who love the dice rolling and

00:43:58
love to kick butt. Like they want to have a

00:44:01
battle, you know. And that's one of the player

00:44:04
archetypes that he has in his book is

00:44:07
like the butt Interesting.

00:44:09
>> Ron Desi: Interesting.

00:44:09
>> Clint Scheirer: And there's like quizzes people have made, you know, to try to

00:44:12
like qu. Quizify, his teachings in that

00:44:15
book. But overall, like just knowing your

00:44:18
players, knowing what they like and planning

00:44:21
just enough to make it interesting so

00:44:23
that they can come up with the rest of the world is genius.

00:44:26
Now you were talking before we started

00:44:29
about a quiz that you are developing,

00:44:31
a kind of survey of such and you've alluded

00:44:34
to it a couple of times, like a rogue has

00:44:37
a certain personality type. Can you tell me a little

00:44:40
bit about that quiz and what you're thinking about it and where it's going?

00:44:43
>> Ron Desi: I would say yeah. Thanks for bringing that up because I think it's something

00:44:46
I've become really passionate about. And it started

00:44:49
with. So anyway, to give it. To

00:44:52
answer the question, yes, I created a quiz that. For my

00:44:55
dungeon noob, channel.

00:44:58
You know, the channel is basically about not how to play, it's

00:45:00
not about mechanics, it's not about I'm a

00:45:03
noob to this, so I am no one to talk about

00:45:06
strategies to be a dm. I mean I just,

00:45:09
I just wouldn't do that. It'disingenuous. So what

00:45:12
I do is talk about the D20 & D

00:45:15
lifestyle. I've got got videos coming out about, you know,

00:45:17
the coolest dice that are out there, the most expensive dice, you know, how to

00:45:20
find a group, what do you need to play, you know, those kinds of

00:45:23
things. And part of the channel also I want

00:45:26
to make it, you know, what can you learn? And

00:45:29
we. This is kind of a thread that has come through this

00:45:32
conversation we've had is how can you develop

00:45:35
and learn from tabletop role

00:45:38
playing games, dungeons into dragons, etc. So I got to

00:45:41
thinking like, how is there something I can give my audience

00:45:44
which right now it's small, it's like 2 subscribers, but, but

00:45:47
it's growing. What can I give them that

00:45:49
would not just be something fun but

00:45:52
also kind of help them in life? I know that's kind of an

00:45:55
audacious goal to have, but as I

00:45:58
was thinking about it I ran into some

00:46:01
research, that talks about

00:46:04
Dungeons and Dragons classes. So from bar

00:46:07
to ranger to fighter, barbarian, artificer,

00:46:09
the whole bit, all of those are.

00:46:13
You could take those classes and map those

00:46:15
to personality archetypes. So,

00:46:18
you know, what class are you in real life?

00:46:21
So it's one thing to say in the game I'm a,

00:46:24
let's say I'm a bard. But in real life, based

00:46:27
on your personality, what are

00:46:30
you? And so I wanted

00:46:33
to kind of share that because I think it's

00:46:36
something I'm passionate about. Like, for instance, the fighter. Like there's

00:46:39
something called a core identity, and I'm reading right here, it says, you know,

00:46:42
for the fighter, the core identity of a fighter, based on

00:46:45
this research and other things I found was you're a doer, a

00:46:48
master of your chosen craft. You believe that success is

00:46:51
not a matter of luck talk or raw

00:46:53
talent, but a relentless discipline, practice,

00:46:56
preparation. So I created a quiz

00:46:59
that. It's a 12 question quiz

00:47:02
that kind of hones

00:47:05
what class you might be. And when

00:47:08
you take it, you'll get the results. And the results

00:47:10
aren't just, hey, congratulations, Clint.Scheirer@claimtogamepodcast.com, you're a

00:47:13
barbarian. It's, you actually get a PDF

00:47:16
that tells you what you are, what the class

00:47:19
is based on your personality type,

00:47:22
what your strengths are, what your superpower is,

00:47:25
and then, you know, how you can apply that to your life. And also

00:47:28
what are your weaknesses? What are those blind spots? Because

00:47:30
if you're got, if you have the barbarian

00:47:33
archetype, it means that you're more,

00:47:36
you know, focused on, you know, the, you know,

00:47:39
the role energy that you might have, the impulsive types of

00:47:42
things. You're the person who, you know, you, you, you

00:47:45
know, I'm trying to think of the, you know, you shoot first, ask

00:47:48
questions later, that cliche. And one of the we,

00:47:50
there's a lot of strengths to that, but there's a lot of weaknesses built

00:47:53
into that as well. So the personality, you know,

00:47:56
PDF that you get not just tells you what class you are,

00:47:59
but it also talks about, you know, how you can

00:48:02
take that class, embrace it, and then

00:48:05
hopefully apply it to your life and make

00:48:08
your life better either at work or school or at

00:48:10
home, relationships or just, you know, however you want it to

00:48:13
apply it. So that's kind of what I've built.

00:48:16
And you know, I'm sure that if you could probably put the

00:48:19
link down in, the description or the down and down

00:48:22
below.

00:48:22
>> Clint Scheirer: You bet. Shoot that quiz link over. And anybody who's

00:48:25
listening right now will be able to take around quiz for sure

00:48:28
once it's up and running.

00:48:30
>> Ron Desi: Yeah, it. I'm. By the time this goes live, it probably

00:48:32
will be ready. In fact, I'm going to make sure it's ready. And you

00:48:35
know, I've had a lot of fun doing it and I've taken the quiz

00:48:38
myself and I was like, I

00:48:41
am this person. I turned out to be a Ranger. I'm kind of a

00:48:44
loner. I prefer a lot of

00:48:46
downtime. Like when I. It's like, I'm not a social

00:48:49
extrovert. I'm not going to go out and like, try to do

00:48:52
things with, you know, I kind of more or less like

00:48:54
my. I like to withdraw. That's just the way I

00:48:57
am. And you know, having me time

00:49:00
is, you know, critical and that's a superpower. But

00:49:03
it's also, there's a lot of weaknesses built in too because you could

00:49:06
become so withdrawn that, you know, you miss out on all

00:49:09
the things that life has to offer. So it kind of even me

00:49:12
taking the quiz, I was like, yeah, I kind of, you know, I need

00:49:15
to do certain things to try to, you know, to steer

00:49:17
myself in a direction if I want to become successful at

00:49:20
X, Y and Z.

00:49:21
>> Clint Scheirer: So, yeah, strengths and weaknesses or

00:49:24
challenges to the same class.

00:49:27
That's really awesome. Yeah, I'm totally going to take the quiz,

00:49:30
and let everybody know what I am too.

00:49:32
>> Ron Desi: I might. If you don't mind, Clint.Scheirer@claimtogamepodcast.com, I'll. What I might do is I'll send you

00:49:35
so you can test it. If you want to test it, I'd be happy to sen it to you.

00:49:38
>> Clint Scheirer: Let me test it as many. I love that stuff.

00:49:41
I remember I took one for Harry Potter U. way back.

00:49:44
>> Ron Desi: Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:49:45
>> Clint Scheirer: Oh, I've taken so many Harry Potter quizzes.

00:49:47
Usually I fall. I was a Slytherin and then I ended

00:49:50
up being a Gryffindor and then I was a mixture between Ravenclaw

00:49:53
and Slytherin. I was like a sl. Slithered Slitheror. I

00:49:56
don't even know what they slither. Gryffindor.

00:49:59
>> Ron Desi: It's funny because none of these, you know, none of these

00:50:01
quizzes like my quiz are the ones that you've taken and I've taken

00:50:04
those two. None of these are like, scientifically valid

00:50:07
quizzes at all, but, you know, they are.

00:50:10
I would say, you know, they're good enough to get you in

00:50:13
the right direction. So if you really wanted to,

00:50:16
you know, take a look at, you know, whether you're, you know, I don't know if the one

00:50:19
that you took was like, you know, you're a Slytherin. So

00:50:22
that means here are your strengths, here your weaknesses.

00:50:25
>> Clint Scheirer: Means I'm evil.

00:50:26
>> Ron Desi: Yeah, that's. It's like you're evil and you know,

00:50:29
it's Yeah. but yeah, I think those are just. They're fun to take.

00:50:32
Everyone likes to take them. And then if it's got something

00:50:35
beneficial to you, then more power to it. So yeah, they're

00:50:38
fun. I like them.

00:50:39
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah, it's, it allows us to reflect.

00:50:42
And I think anytime you were mentioning about being

00:50:44
on technology earlier and just how we're always

00:50:47
so distracted, anytime we can slow

00:50:50
down and reflect on ourselves, our lives and the people around

00:50:53
us, even if it's a quiz about what class we are with D20 &

00:50:56
D, like that can only be good, in my opinion.

00:50:58
>> Ron Desi: Yeah. and the thing I love about like the whole,

00:51:01
you know, tabletop role playing games, dungeon and dragons and all of

00:51:04
that is the fact that it really can help

00:51:07
you. And like we were talking about before, and this is kind of a thread

00:51:10
that's kind of unexpectedly come up. Like I was m talking about

00:51:13
that the guy who, you know, Matt Mercer, saw

00:51:16
that he was just on the verge of suicide and D20 & D

00:51:19
helped him. It might be an extreme case, but there

00:51:21
are a lot of cases where if you really look, there

00:51:24
are so many, like you mentioned before, that

00:51:26
TTRPG's are being used in therapy

00:51:29
now. So it's like there's's,

00:51:32
there's a lot to be gained than just

00:51:35
it's fun, but there's a lot of stuff that can come out

00:51:38
of it that could really, at least for me anyway, I think it could help you in

00:51:41
your life.

00:51:42
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah. episode 42. I talked with

00:51:45
Martin Lloyd. he m also, I think originally was

00:51:48
from the uk I think he lives in the Netherlands now. But he came up

00:51:51
with a game called Amazing Tales and

00:51:54
it really caters to that younger audience where D20 &

00:51:57
D might feel really complex.

00:52:00
I played it with my little girls actually, and they loved it. I think

00:52:03
they made up like two fairies that went and rescued

00:52:06
an owl baby. A little owl.

00:52:08
>> Ron Desi: Awesome.

00:52:09
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah. And they came up with most of it. It rarely did I

00:52:12
come up with anything, in that game. But he's

00:52:15
had therapists reach out to him and say, this is phenomenal for

00:52:18
my type of counseling that I do.

00:52:20
So yeah, yeah, it's a real deal.

00:52:24
>> Ron Desi: And to, to kind of piggyback on that. I was,

00:52:27
my friend Jay, who does that you know, pro, Dungeon

00:52:29
master thing. It's interesting because she was saying

00:52:32
that the moment, like these. Most

00:52:35
of the time right now, most of our clients are parents,

00:52:38
you know, come, you know, hiring her to do

00:52:41
D20 & D for their kids or their kids and the friends and that kind of thing.

00:52:44
And she always says, she's like, after. She's like, they drank the Kool Aid.

00:52:47
Oh, no.

00:52:48
>> Clint Scheirer: Oh, yeah.

00:52:49
>> Ron Desi: She's like, because the parents come to me. The kids have a blast.

00:52:52
And the parents come to me and they're like, oh, my God, I can't believe

00:52:55
for three hours straight, not one time did they look at their

00:52:57
phones. You know what I mean? And in today's society,

00:53:00
that's everything, right? It's like,

00:53:03
if you can get kids to do that and be imaginative, like

00:53:06
with your, like you said with your daughters. I mean, that's

00:53:09
awesome.

00:53:10
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah. For reference, at this time, my daughters are

00:53:12
six and four's

00:53:15
very little. And I remember trying to get

00:53:18
them into doing D20 & D when they were younger. When my

00:53:21
oldest son, he's, he's eight, like, having him try to do

00:53:24
it, it just got too much and they

00:53:26
started tuning out.

00:53:28
>> Ron Desi: Yes.

00:53:28
>> Clint Scheirer: because even, even just a simple saving

00:53:31
modifier, you know, on a, or a strength

00:53:34
modifier or something like that, like, that's too much. you know,

00:53:37
less is more with the littles.

00:53:39
>> Ron Desi: But yes, yes, it is.

00:53:41
>> Clint Scheirer: Wrapping this all together. I, do this on every

00:53:44
single episode and people are probably like, why is he talking about this again?

00:53:47
But there's an activity that Eric news him, from

00:53:49
NPR News. He's not NPR anymore. He has his own

00:53:52
deal. He wrote a book about podcasting,

00:53:55
make noise. And in that book he

00:53:58
talked about creating a 10 word phrase using

00:54:01
the economy of words. So it can't be more than 10, it can't be

00:54:04
less than 10, but exactly 10

00:54:06
words. To help our listener

00:54:09
remember something about what we talked about today, whether

00:54:12
it's related to autism, the spectrum

00:54:15
neurodivergeny with D20 & D.

00:54:17
you know, just. What do you want people to remember?

00:54:22
>> Ron Desi: I would say, I mean, that's a good question.

00:54:25
difficult question too. Even though we were pretty focused. I mean,

00:54:28
we didn't get. We kind of. We went a little outside, but

00:54:31
we were pretty focused. I mean, I would say if anything.

00:54:34
Let me think about that.

00:54:35
>> Clint Scheirer: We got like a B. Oh, yeah.

00:54:37
>> Ron Desi: Oh, focus. Yes, Yes. I think focus. We did pretty well. Bus, for

00:54:40
sure. I would say that, the first thing that

00:54:43
popped in my head is probably too cheesy. But it's the first thing that popped

00:54:46
in my head so I'll just say it and maybe I can modify it

00:54:49
later. Later. But you know, D20 & D

00:54:52
or let's just say tabletop role playing games can

00:54:55
change your life. I think that they

00:54:58
can. And I'll even maybe D20 & D

00:55:01
role playing games can change someone's life

00:55:03
kind of thing because like we've talked about, I think

00:55:06
there's more to it than just people around

00:55:09
a table playing a game. I think with these

00:55:12
games I think they're more imaginative than

00:55:15
most other games. I think they're more u

00:55:19
of course I'm biased. You biased kind of thing,

00:55:21
but from what I've done and the research that I've done

00:55:24
on like the class quiz, things that I've seen

00:55:27
online, the things that you talk about when you were talking about

00:55:29
Clint.Scheirer@claimtogamepodcast.com, about you know, the, in

00:55:30
therapy, truly, these games

00:55:33
can truly help improve your life

00:55:36
and the life of someone that you care about. So I would,

00:55:39
I would say that, I would say, you know, tabletop role playing

00:55:42
games can change your or someone else's

00:55:45
life.

00:55:46
>> Clint Scheirer: 100% agree. I if I, if I was a

00:55:49
tattoo kind of man, that would be something I would put

00:55:52
around.

00:55:52
>> Ron Desi: The old bicep, put, put a D20 and

00:55:55
then right underneath it ye D.

00:55:57
>> Clint Scheirer: And D can change your life.

00:55:58
>> Ron Desi: And thank God me genean I got my pump back man. You

00:56:01
know, the pythons are already the largest arms in the world.

00:56:03
>> Clint Scheirer: Ron, thank you for joining. Thanks for beingeah.

00:56:05
>> Ron Desi: This is fun Clint.Scheirer@claimtogamepodcast.com. I appreciate it.

00:56:07
>> Clint Scheirer: I guess the last thing I want the listener to know. How

00:56:10
can they connect with you and your

00:56:13
work, what you're doing, how can they stay connected to it?

00:56:16
Where would you send them?

00:56:17
>> Ron Desi: So right now everything is YouTube. So if you

00:56:20
go to u YouTube and just search

00:56:23
dungeon noob one word n o o b I think

00:56:26
it's YouTube.com

00:56:29
dungeonnob and then if you do

00:56:32
that you'll find everything. My email address is directly

00:56:34
ron dungeonnob.com do if you wanted to kind of do it that

00:56:37
way. But yeah, everything over on YouTube.

00:56:40
>> Clint Scheirer: Awesome. I will make sure that's all in the show notes for those

00:56:42
of you who are a part of the Better yourself better your

00:56:45
game newsletter. I popped Ron into the newsletter and

00:56:48
he'll be he'll be in the next newsletter for sure

00:56:51
because this is, this is great rn thank

00:56:54
you. Enjoy all of your games. I hope you

00:56:57
find that dream group that you're waiting for.

00:57:00
>> Ron Desi: I hope you do too.

00:57:01
>> Clint Scheirer: Oh, I. Yeah, it'll come. And if not, I'll just be that old

00:57:04
guy that's in all the, you know, the game shops running games for

00:57:07
free. So.

00:57:08
>> Ron Desi: Yeah.

00:57:09
>> Clint Scheirer: Thanks again, Ron. Take care.

00:57:11
>> Ron Desi: All right. Thanks, Clint.Scheirer@claimtogamepodcast.com. Take care.

00:57:12
>> Clint Scheirer: Tabletop Role playing games can change someone's life.

00:57:15
Maybe yours. Click on the link in the show notes to check out

00:57:18
Ron's 13 question quiz. What D20 & D class

00:57:21
are you in real life? This is real life, kid. You

00:57:24
can uncover your unique strengths and also a simple

00:57:27
framework for how to grow in games and in

00:57:30
real life. I took the quiz and came out as a

00:57:33
cleric. Greetings Cleric. Someone with

00:57:35
faith, strong ideals and a desire to help others.

00:57:38
It pretty much had me pegged. Please hit like or

00:57:41
subscribe if you enjoyed what you heard today. If you listened on

00:57:44
Apple or Spotify, go ahead and give a five star review to

00:57:47
the ctg. And may you keep having fun as you

00:57:50
continue to have a great time with friends and tell amazing stories

00:57:53
through Tabletop Role Playing.