Claim to Game Podcast
040: How to Pace One Shots - with Guy Milner
Claim to GameMay 22, 2025
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040: How to Pace One Shots - with Guy Milner

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#40 - Pacing a TTRPG game can be tricky. Guy Milner, From The Burn After Running RPG Blog, and a regular host of the Unconventional GMs podcast gave me some great tips about how to keep the pace and run fantastic one-shot games. In our conversation Guy shares: Why one shot RPGs sessions are just as valid as long campaigns. His SWELL structure gives players the full emotional arc for their characters during one and done games. He’s also going to give you a TON of other Tabletop games you should go out and play.

 

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00:00:00
>> Speaker A: Just play hard. It's about driving pace,

00:00:02
it's about investing in your character straight away.

00:00:05
>> Clint Scheirer: It doesn't become real until your characters make it real.

00:00:07
>> Speaker A: Driving towards not just action

00:00:10
but also role playing investment,

00:00:13
emotional investment with the characters, play

00:00:16
with the other players and so on. But just play

00:00:19
hard.

00:00:19
>> Clint Scheirer: Pacing a tabletop RPG game can be tricky. Like

00:00:22
real tricky. Guy Milner, who writes the Burn After

00:00:25
Running RPG blog and is also one of the regular hosts of the

00:00:28
unconventional GM's podcast. he gave me

00:00:31
some real good tips about how to run

00:00:33
fantastic one shot games and

00:00:36
continue to keep the pace to keep my players interested. One

00:00:39
shot games are just as valid as

00:00:42
any other long form campaigns that you might

00:00:45
play. the typical D20 & D playing once a

00:00:47
week, every week, forever and ever. one shot

00:00:50
games are a valid form of play.

00:00:54
Guy also talks about his structure,

00:00:56
his swell, I think he calls it swell,

00:00:59
the emotional arc that he, he allows players

00:01:02
and helps players go through in the short amount of time that

00:01:05
they get to play a game. You stick around and you watch this

00:01:08
episode. Guy isnna give you suggestions for

00:01:10
so many games,

00:01:12
billions with a B that you can

00:01:15
run, that you can play and that you're probably going toa want to go out and

00:01:18
buy. So it's time for you to make that claim to

00:01:21
game.

00:01:52
Hey, welcome Guy. Glad to have you here on the Claim to Game

00:01:55
Podcast. it was so much fun trying to get

00:01:58
you onto this podcast at a different

00:02:01
time in the time zone of the world. You

00:02:04
being over at the uk, me being over here in

00:02:06
Milwaukee. Thanks for joining me today. I am so pumped m

00:02:09
for what you have to share.

00:02:10
>> Speaker A: Yeah, it's a pleasure, it's a pleasure. I mean the times zone,

00:02:13
it shouldn't be that difficult. people listen'be thinking o they

00:02:16
must have had loads of trouble now literally it's just we got the time

00:02:19
zones wrong.

00:02:20
>> Clint Scheirer: That was, it's, you know, it's,

00:02:22
it's, it's all good.

00:02:23
And you know the cool thing is we have plenty of time to talk

00:02:26
about your area of expertise. You

00:02:29
are, are in my opinion a

00:02:32
expert at one shot RPGs.

00:02:35
you play it, you have your blog Burn

00:02:38
After Running which is so cool. I had actually

00:02:41
stumbled onto your blog far before I knew who

00:02:44
you were. I love one shots too.

00:02:46
I feel like at this time of my life, being a

00:02:49
dad, being you know, trying to be a present

00:02:52
husband, it's good to schedule just one

00:02:55
game. One and done. And then when There is time to

00:02:58
do it again, for the next one shot instead of a long

00:03:01
running campaign. So you know, the one shot's really the

00:03:04
one shot's really. I identify with them.

00:03:07
But I want you to start out. You

00:03:09
mentioned to me before we started that you have a

00:03:12
theory that one shot RPG

00:03:15
sessions are vital. Just as vital as

00:03:18
any other form of play. Can you tell me a little bit

00:03:21
about that? Why do you think it's so vital?

00:03:22
>> Speaker A: Yeah, I think, I think we've sort of ended up with

00:03:25
this weird paradigm of

00:03:28
play where we assume that the

00:03:31
default form is a so long running campaign

00:03:34
where you meet weekly, it's the same GM every time.

00:03:37
And in the D20 & D parlance you go from level one

00:03:40
to level 20. And

00:03:43
it's weird that that's become the expected way

00:03:45
because I don't even think that most campaigns go that

00:03:48
way. Like they fall down, they don't last that

00:03:51
long. and you're not going to get to play as many

00:03:53
games. I think that mean. I started running

00:03:56
one shots when I started going to game conventions and running and

00:03:59
playing one shots had some fantastic experiences and just

00:04:02
sor. Of rolled with it. I set up a one sh, ah, one shot

00:04:05
meetup in Leeds, England when I moved over

00:04:08
here back from Manchester and we got some

00:04:11
really good games and I started to think actually

00:04:13
sometimes there's two different things.

00:04:16
You have a long running campaign, you get to know your

00:04:18
characters, you get to really invest in them and

00:04:21
get there. But a one shot, you can have just as deep an

00:04:24
experience in a two to four hour session

00:04:27
as you can there. It's different. And ye.

00:04:30
You need both of them. But I just think there's just as much you

00:04:33
can get from one shots and I really think that people's

00:04:35
play and running games is improved.

00:04:38
Buy More One Shots.

00:04:41
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah, I would agree. I think my game mastering has

00:04:44
gotten better since I've moved to this other form

00:04:46
of play. But you have you have a

00:04:49
structure, you have a structure for how

00:04:52
you ensure that players can feel that full

00:04:55
emotional arc that you know, some people

00:04:57
played, you know, week after week, year after year and

00:05:00
they're able to kind of like old friends, you know, grow friendships.

00:05:03
They don't have that luxury when they're doing a one shot. So

00:05:06
how do you make that happen in a one shot game? Whether

00:05:09
it's a convention or just somebody running it at their table at

00:05:12
home with friends.

00:05:14
>> Speaker A: So I think you need to It does

00:05:17
take a level of preparation a little bit higher than an

00:05:20
ongoing campaign because you don't have previous sessions to rely

00:05:23
on from that. And I think, ah, as the GM

00:05:26
or facilitator running the game, you do have to think a bit more

00:05:29
carefully about it. Obviously it's easier if it's with friends that you

00:05:32
know, but if you're going to a convention, which I'd recommend

00:05:35
to anyone, you don't even have to go to one. There's loads of online

00:05:38
conventions. You can go in and play one shot games there.

00:05:41
you need to really think carefully about certain aspects of the

00:05:44
game. The structure that I tend to have for

00:05:47
traditional style games, if you like trad games, if you're

00:05:50
running a game where it's a traditional, the GM plans it and you have

00:05:53
an adventure, the GMs got an idea of what's going on and players

00:05:56
go through it and play their characters. The

00:05:58
basic structure that I would have for that plot is I think I call

00:06:01
it the swell. So you need a really strong start

00:06:04
and you probably need to have planned out quite closely what that

00:06:07
first scene is going to be because you want to hit the ground

00:06:10
running. I always think in D20 &

00:06:12
D terms, you don't want to start in the tavern with the

00:06:15
old wizard giving you the quest, you want to start at the door of the

00:06:18
dungeon. Yeah. If you want to flashack to it, you can go

00:06:21
back to it and do it. You want a really strong start and you probably

00:06:24
want a really strong finish as well. Because you want to end with a bang. You want to do

00:06:27
that in the middle. It can be a bit more loosey goosey and

00:06:30
you can have just lots of options you can go through. And you can

00:06:33
also use that to pace it a little bit. Because the thing with one

00:06:36
shots is usually you're on a timetable. So you might

00:06:39
have three hours at a convention, you might have four hours at a convention,

00:06:42
you might have just two hours online. In Unconventional Gems, we've got a

00:06:45
sor of hard limit of two hours that we run to,

00:06:47
so you might not need to use all those bits in the middle.

00:06:50
You need to make that a little bit collapsible so you have a few options of where it

00:06:53
can go and the players can sort of drive play a little bit there, but

00:06:56
you try and so haul it back into a finale as well

00:06:59
from there.

00:07:01
>> Clint Scheirer: So one of the things that you mentioned was having

00:07:04
a strong start and a strong

00:07:07
finish. I think of when I think of the term

00:07:10
strong start. That's, that's Mike Sha's

00:07:13
lazy Dungeon master style, which is he got

00:07:15
me into becoming a better GM by thinking of

00:07:18
that structure. can you give me an

00:07:20
example of a strong start that

00:07:23
you have used in a campaign recently

00:07:26
or a game that you, that you ran?

00:07:29
>> Speaker A: Yeah. So it's going to be a cliche but I

00:07:32
think I stick with the sor of Robin Law's line that

00:07:35
CL is terrible in every art form apart from

00:07:38
roleplay where it's really, really good because you can hang on to

00:07:41
it. Very often it will be a fight.

00:07:43
And I have this idea that I talk about sometimes

00:07:46
that I did a thing. it was Twitter (X a

00:07:49
few years ago where I said at what point should you roll the first

00:07:52
dice in a one shot game? You know, you'at a convention, you've all

00:07:55
sat down. How far into the game should you roll that dice?

00:07:58
And everybody came back, said oh, 10 minutes, half

00:08:01
an hour was the longest. People saidint. I've sat

00:08:04
in one shot games at conventions and it's been an hour

00:08:06
before I've rolled initiative or did it. So it's that

00:08:09
thing if you need a quick setup, get the characters out. I'll give you an

00:08:12
example. a game I've run loads of times. 13th age

00:08:15
Glantha. I have a scenario beard of Lank on

00:08:17
my which I think is on the channel actually.

00:08:20
And literally the starting scene,

00:08:23
you're members of a clan, you're out on patrol. I don't do the

00:08:26
whole sort of Gloarantha backdrop,

00:08:28
16 pages of the world and stuff. All

00:08:31
you need to know, you're barbarian tribesmen, you're on

00:08:34
patrol, you see a duck, anthropomorphic duck

00:08:37
feature gloantha. Get there, you notice a feather fall. He's

00:08:40
hiding in a tree above you and he just,

00:08:42
just shushes you. And as you do that you hear a hunting

00:08:45
horn brew crashing beastman attack you and you

00:08:48
straight into the combat and you've got an engageing

00:08:51
npc. So you've got a question. What's going on with this duck that's

00:08:54
of the trees. Obviously he's your quest giver but you've got a rescue

00:08:57
group first and you're straight away getting into the sort

00:09:00
of meat and potatoes of the game. And there's not a

00:09:04
it's not the mission briefing thing. That's why you need to not start in

00:09:07
the tavern because you'll get before you know it you'll have

00:09:10
players going into their

00:09:13
sort of long term play where they can be saying things like

00:09:15
oh'just negotiate for a Bit more gold. It's a one shot. It

00:09:18
doesn't matter how much goldd they re can to give you. Like you've got to do

00:09:21
this quest otherwise we're going to go home now. Like we

00:09:24
can't play. So straight away, quick

00:09:27
introduction, go with a fight. It could be a fight, it could be a skill

00:09:29
challenge. I've done that a few times in games like Ironsworn Sworn

00:09:33
or similar, where you have a sort of extended task, everyone gets

00:09:36
to make a skill roll. You resolve it like that. Bit of peril at the

00:09:39
start, but yeah, combat is the absolute. If you

00:09:42
can't think of how to start it, start it like that, think, right, I'll start with a

00:09:44
fight. The characters are in danger straight away and

00:09:47
you can resolve it from that and you can teach the system then.

00:09:50
>> Clint Scheirer: Do you do the same thing for the end of the game too?

00:09:53
for a fight, you know, you said a strong start at the beginning, a strong start

00:09:56
at the end. Would you still recommend the end battle,

00:09:59
the end game, the big bad evil guy, the end

00:10:01
boss.

00:10:02
>> Speaker A: So it depends on your game, doesn't it? I think that you

00:10:05
want, you want something exciting, and

00:10:08
dangerous and you want at

00:10:11
least the sort of threat of jeopardy of this

00:10:14
might not work. And in a lot of traditional games

00:10:17
that is going to be a fight. In 13th age Clantha when I run

00:10:19
that, it is going to be a big fight at the end and it's

00:10:22
probably going to be more challenging than the first fight

00:10:25
and there's going toa be more things going around. It's going toa be things flying around and

00:10:28
stuff. There's a bit of terrain in the fight.

00:10:31
It could be a fight in other games where you've got more

00:10:34
flexibility in what an exciting scene could be. you can be a

00:10:37
bit more open with it. So for instance, I don't know if you've made

00:10:40
or played Agoon or the Paragon system

00:10:42
so that.

00:10:43
>> Clint Scheirer: No. But I did see somebody post, I think it was Craig

00:10:46
Shipman from Tabletop Talk. He posted how great

00:10:49
the game was on Blue sky the other day. And he's like, this is great

00:10:51
game.

00:10:52
>> Speaker A: So that has a conflict resolution system, where

00:10:55
you build towards a big battle at the end and that could be

00:10:58
a big fight or it could be a really tense

00:11:00
negotiation. I think when I'PLAYED it once we ended

00:11:03
up, it was facilitating and making sure a marriage

00:11:06
went well between two rival families on the

00:11:09
island. But it had that thing of like it was a bit

00:11:12
dangerous. We didn't know if it'work or not. Every player was

00:11:14
involved, every player was using their skills and there was a bit

00:11:17
of narration, rolepl play in it. So

00:11:20
something like that where everyone's involved, everyone's in a big group, they're all

00:11:23
helping to pull together for one thing. So whenever run. Starforged

00:11:26
Trek that has a Starforged Trek Adventures has a really good extended task

00:11:29
system, that you can use for like curing a disease

00:11:32
or negotiating a treaty with the Cllingons. And that's another

00:11:35
one where you can end with a really tense extended task where you're

00:11:38
trying to do it. What I would advise

00:11:40
against, which I've seen in some games

00:11:43
is that sort of trick solution where

00:11:46
you say right, you've solved the puzzle. And so that's

00:11:49
it Sol. and that always, that always falls a little bit

00:11:52
flat for me. You need the peril to be right until the

00:11:54
end.

00:11:56
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeahah. I was thinking whenever you go

00:11:59
in to try to make a treaty with a Klingon, it we'll probably end in

00:12:02
a fight, right?

00:12:03
>> Speaker A: Just use the combat system, it's fine.

00:12:05
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah, that's awesome.

00:12:07
this got me thinking, right so we're talking about when you're sitting down, you're

00:12:10
starting the game, you are ending the game, on

00:12:13
a high note. A note where the solution is the end of the

00:12:16
game. Also what about prep?

00:12:18
You know, I've run games one shots at

00:12:21
my house where I didn't wanna spend a whole lot of

00:12:24
minutiae in all this stuff.

00:12:27
So sometimes I would email things out, I would send

00:12:30
things out to friends like hey, make sure that you got this going.

00:12:33
Make sure that you, you know, I know in conventions it's usually pre

00:12:36
gens, pre made characters. What would

00:12:39
be your suggestion or advice for preparing your

00:12:42
players before they get to the table to help streamline the

00:12:44
experience?

00:12:46
>> Speaker A: So I think it depends on the players that you've got. If it's

00:12:49
your own group and it's people that you know,

00:12:52
then by all means you could send out some stuff

00:12:54
beforehand. you could get. So obviously when we're

00:12:57
playing on the channel, people select their pre

00:13:00
gens. I send out a link to the preges beforehand. Me or Gaz will send out and

00:13:03
they'll pick it and it just means that they can get an idea of the

00:13:05
rules beforehand. And that is sort of an ideal

00:13:08
world for convention games.

00:13:11
My experience is that

00:13:13
expecting people to respond to that

00:13:16
is unlikely and it's just not worth it. And you might as well just

00:13:19
rock up to the table with your pre gens people that have booked to come

00:13:22
to a convention and play to your game they don't want to

00:13:25
do. They've not invested in doing any sort of preg game prep with

00:13:28
it like you are and you'll just

00:13:31
get frustrated yourself because it'd be that thing.

00:13:34
Three people have picked their pre gen and the other two haven't. It

00:13:37
ends up being a bit weird at the table. So for a convention game I'm

00:13:40
90% of the time I'm show up, hand

00:13:43
out the pre gens, teach the system. There's no

00:13:46
prior knowledge involved. The only exception that I do

00:13:49
make is if I'm running any games

00:13:52
like Powered by the Apocalypse where you might have a

00:13:55
selection of playbooks that players can pick from that might

00:13:57
change quite a lot what the focus of the game would be.

00:14:00
So if I'm running Apocalypse World, if one of the

00:14:03
players wants to play a hardholder which is the character that sort

00:14:06
of runs a community, if you've got a hard holder in play,

00:14:09
the whole session is going to be a little bit different and I'm going to

00:14:12
have to think about that in prep and I'm going to have to look at it

00:14:15
a bit differently if that's in play. So I'll get players

00:14:18
to just pick what they don't have to do. The character generation. Although

00:14:21
in PBTA it's really straightforward anyway. But just pick which one are

00:14:24
you going to be and then I can sort of craft it a little bit with that.

00:14:27
But it's not like you know, if I'm running D20 & D, it doesn't matter if I've got a

00:14:30
Druid and a M Monk or a Palin and arranger.

00:14:33
Like my scenario isnna be pretty much the same anyway.

00:14:36
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah. That leads me into my next thought which

00:14:39
is the challenges. Right. So some of the

00:14:42
challenges and I've heard Craig say this, you're

00:14:45
four agents of chaos that you're throwing into the

00:14:48
game and a one shot, you know, some

00:14:51
people might be like well it's okay, you will never play this, this character

00:14:53
again. This story's a one time deal. Like maybe there's a little bit

00:14:56
of like it's okay for it not to be perfect. but,

00:14:59
but what are the challenges and still making it a

00:15:02
good experience when somebody throws a curveball at

00:15:05
you. How do you deal with the shifts and the turns

00:15:08
from maybe the normal the

00:15:11
normal story. Robin was talking about when

00:15:13
I talked to him back on episode 16 he was saying, you know, there's a

00:15:16
ball that people are handing you when you're at a

00:15:19
convention or playing a game and you don't want to slam the ball

00:15:22
on the ground and say, no, I'm gonna go over to

00:15:25
the tavern and talk to the wizard. You know, there was a fight but I'd rather

00:15:28
go, you know, do the stereotypical talking to the wizard. No, you

00:15:31
pick up the ball and you run with it and

00:15:34
you play along with the story. how do you overcome

00:15:37
challenges, twists and turns that your players may

00:15:39
throw?

00:15:41
>> Speaker A: So I think there's sort of two categories of that.

00:15:44
There's challenges that are twists and turns that are players being

00:15:47
inventive and buying into the premise and thinking,

00:15:50
oh, actually instead of just fighting the clickons, we're going

00:15:53
to go and negotiate with them. and that's great.

00:15:55
That's an inventive way to do it. That's, you know,

00:15:58
you support that and you try and have some options in your prep for it.

00:16:01
I think I've blogged before about, you know, if you're

00:16:04
going to do a structure for a one shot or a session,

00:16:07
it's sort of okay to have a straight line of linear

00:16:10
scenes. If each of those scenes could be resolved in

00:16:13
multiple different ways. Because that's not

00:16:15
linear, that's giving different options in each place that you go

00:16:18
to. So that's one category where I think you just have

00:16:21
to be open minded about prep and sor. Of be

00:16:24
prepared to run with it a bit. There is also the

00:16:27
other side of it which is players not engaging with the

00:16:30
premise. And it can be, I'll go to the tavern and do

00:16:33
this. It can be, oh, that wood looks dangerous. I'm

00:16:35
not going to go in there. I'm going to do this other thing as well.

00:16:39
And I tend to be quite. I think the way to deal with that

00:16:42
is to just deal with it outside of the game and be really

00:16:45
explicit about this is a one shot. What

00:16:48
you're going to do is go into this dangerous forest and look for the

00:16:51
wolf, the werewolf and

00:16:54
kill it or resolve the problem and take it back. So if

00:16:57
your character wants to go back into the town like they

00:17:00
can do, but you don't need to stay at this table because

00:17:02
the game's going to be happening over here and

00:17:05
sometimes you have to restate that because some players will

00:17:08
think that that's the trick for it,

00:17:11
but't try. Don't think you have to solve that in

00:17:14
game. I was in the game a couple of years ago. it was

00:17:17
a sort of science fiction, I think with Starforge

00:17:21
we'd found a derelict spaceship which was clearly

00:17:24
sort of what we had to get as dangerous. We had to go on board that. One of

00:17:27
the players with Adamant. Oh, well, you go on there, I'll stay on the ship.

00:17:30
And Germ's like, well, I mean you can do that, but

00:17:33
the game is going to take place on this derelic spaceship. So if you stay on the

00:17:36
ship, you're not going to be like able to do

00:17:38
anything. Said, oh well, no, I thought what to do and we had

00:17:41
to. Right. Time out. Actually, if you'ren toa do

00:17:44
that like you don't need to stay at this table, like go to the

00:17:47
bar or something. We're going toa play the game. The games here. You can't

00:17:50
wander off and just.

00:17:52
>> Clint Scheirer: So it's okay to take a time out, make a

00:17:54
quick restatement of the, I

00:17:57
guess the norms. Right. It's kind of like meeting norms if you're thinking

00:18:00
about your, your 9 to 5 job. If you're 9 to fiver

00:18:03
or somebody who's at a meeting for their, for their actual job.

00:18:06
>> Speaker A: Yeah. And I think, and I think don't, don't be afraid to say it because

00:18:09
sometimes, you know, the example I've given is maybe

00:18:12
it sound, it sounds like it's bad play or it

00:18:14
players not engaging or coming up to be disruptive. It

00:18:17
isn't always. Sometimes it's just a misunderstanding

00:18:20
and equally as a player I'll try

00:18:23
and be quite open and say, sorry, can I just check in?

00:18:26
Do we all need to go there or is there other stuff to do? You

00:18:29
know, if the adventure is taking place here, then we'll all go there.

00:18:32
I was going to go off and do something else, but if that's not where you want

00:18:35
us to be, let's go there. and just do that instead

00:18:38
of rolling with it and trying

00:18:40
to pull people back together. It's quite difficult to do it. There are games that

00:18:43
will let you do that. There are games that will let you be. Absolutely.

00:18:46
I'm prepping some hill folk to run this weekend, at

00:18:49
Seven Hills of convention that I run and literally I've got some

00:18:52
characters that are pointed at each other

00:18:55
and I've read the rules again and that's sort of my prep. I

00:18:58
don't really have a plot to bring them. They can do

00:19:01
whatever they want and I'll just have to roll with it. But any sort of

00:19:03
traditional game, even pbta, if, if I'm

00:19:06
prepping a Powered by the Apocalypse game, I'VE got a sort of

00:19:09
broad plot to hang on and I want the players

00:19:12
to hang themselves on that as well. If you see what I

00:19:15
mean.

00:19:15
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah. Was I was thinking of I don't know if it was in

00:19:18
the Lazy Dungeon Master but I remember it was like it

00:19:21
doesn't become real until your characters make it real.

00:19:24
>> Speaker A: Yeah.

00:19:24
>> Clint Scheirer: So sometimes you can have a bunch of plot points that you want to have

00:19:27
happen and then you as the GM can kind of slide

00:19:30
them in as they seem appropriate. That's helped me

00:19:33
in flexibility. good luck with Hillfolk.

00:19:36
That sounds like a fun sandbox.

00:19:38
>> Speaker A: I had a moment of like oh, I've run this before. I checked and it

00:19:41
was like 2014 or something.

00:19:44
It was like when it first came out. Yeahah Inn have to

00:19:47
actually read this again. I ve played it.

00:19:49
>> Clint Scheirer: Is Robin Laws playing in that game?

00:19:51
>> Speaker A: He's not. No, it's not at kraken. It's at 7h that I've

00:19:54
played.

00:19:55
>> Clint Scheirer: I was going to say is Robin playing in his own game? That would be

00:19:58
pretty, pretty boss move. Feel like that's a little

00:20:01
cheating. okay.

00:20:02
So there was another word that you

00:20:05
used in our communication back and forth that I

00:20:08
don't know if the common person and

00:20:11
I'm saying that is like the person who maybe is new to gaming

00:20:14
or somebody who is even gamed before. Because when

00:20:17
you look up this definition outside of tabletop

00:20:20
rolepl playing it means something else and

00:20:23
the, the term was vignette. So

00:20:25
what is a vignette in tabletop role playing game?

00:20:29
Tabletop role playing games. I have a official

00:20:31
definition from Google but I, I want you

00:20:34
to share like what is a vignette and why is it important?

00:20:37
>> Speaker A: So you've got me question in own, my own use of the

00:20:40
word.

00:20:40
>> Clint Scheirer: Now I'm sure it's correct.

00:20:42
>> Speaker A: I mean there's lots of. It's on YouTube. Loads of me.

00:20:45
>> Clint Scheirer: Google's listening right now. You'you're new. You're going to be the new

00:20:48
definition. I don't know.

00:20:48
>> Speaker A: Yeah, language evolves, doesn't it? It's fine. That's it. So

00:20:51
what I'd say for vignette is a short self contained

00:20:54
scene that's almost like it could be a still

00:20:57
shot if you see what I mean. So my reference point,

00:20:59
I use it in two ways at the start and the end of sessions,

00:21:03
often in one shots. and I'll go into that now.

00:21:05
So my reference point for the start of sessions

00:21:08
is if you remember

00:21:11
old TV shows,

00:21:14
such as I'm going to give some references here like Robin of

00:21:16
Sherwood, Quantum Leap, even things

00:21:19
like Colombo and ironside, those old SOR of

00:21:22
80s 90s TV shows they would begin with. They'd

00:21:25
often been an establishing scene. And then as the credits,

00:21:28
like title credits rolled, they'd have loads of

00:21:31
shots of exciting stuff happening, which was

00:21:34
all, all recycled from the rest of that

00:21:37
season.

00:21:37
>> Clint Scheirer: So I'm thinking of MacGyver

00:21:39
rightlyeah.

00:21:41
>> Speaker A: And like literally a season of Quantum

00:21:44
Leap, every episode of it is in that title

00:21:46
sequence. The cool bits of every episode of it. Is't that title

00:21:49
seque? and so I sort of crafted this into

00:21:52
a one shot thing where at the start of the session you often,

00:21:55
you'll ask people to introduce their character

00:21:58
and it's a bit of a hard ask. They've just got a

00:22:01
character sheet in front of them and you often get

00:22:03
quite disappointing descriptions. So

00:22:06
some people will go all out for it and it gets to someone and say, oh

00:22:09
well I'm a fighter. you'll see I'm

00:22:12
wearing chainmail armor and I've got a shield

00:22:15
and a sword.

00:22:16
>> Clint Scheirer: My AC is 14,

00:22:19
I have three attacks per round.

00:22:20
>> Speaker A: And you'll also. And it's just like I don't

00:22:23
want that. So how I do it now is I say, right, you do a

00:22:26
vignette is the word I use for it. So you're going to describe

00:22:29
a really short scene of your character. We see them in

00:22:32
action as the credits roll. it's from

00:22:35
another adventure that you've done. Sometimes I'll do it as

00:22:38
it's from the previous adventure. Your adventurers, you've been working

00:22:41
together for ages. The last time on this show that we're

00:22:43
watching this is what you got up to. sometimes I'll say that,

00:22:46
sometimes I won't say that. And the players will just naturally

00:22:49
like the barbarian will describe his character like standing

00:22:52
atop a pile of bones and he rips an orc's head

00:22:55
off. And naturally it'll go to the Wizd and they'll say, oh,

00:22:58
and in the background I'm doing this. So it all happens at the

00:23:01
same time and it just gives you a nice little way

00:23:04
of not just describing what characters look like, but a

00:23:07
scene. And you can tell a lot more with it. And it's a

00:23:10
bit easier for players to do it at the start of the game.

00:23:13
What I do this is a little. Might be

00:23:15
cheating. I have a bit of a judge of the players that

00:23:18
around the table because we're going to go around the table and do it. And

00:23:21
after I've handed out the pre gens, I try and pick which

00:23:24
of my players. So who's going to get this straight away and

00:23:27
run with it and give a really good little vignette?

00:23:30
Not it has to be amazing, but who's going to really go for

00:23:32
it and get it and start with them? Then they'll set the

00:23:35
standard and then the people that go around'sort of follow that and get the

00:23:38
idea. And sometimes if you play, if there's someone that you know in the

00:23:41
group, you can. You can sort of set them up a bit and say, I'm going to start

00:23:44
with you. Andint you did a description thing that

00:23:47
we always do and then people can follow it. And so that's the start of the game.

00:23:50
At the end of the game, I tend to do it, I think one shot, you play these

00:23:53
characters for two or three hours and then. Then you lay

00:23:56
them down and you sort of don't see them again. So after the adventure, after

00:23:59
we've like, right, we've killed the dragon, everyone,

00:24:02
everyone's great. That's brilliant. We'll often do a short

00:24:05
scene again with each character. Little vignette

00:24:07
of what they look like after the adventure.

00:24:10
Sometimes I'll do it immediately afterwards. Right, you're back at the

00:24:13
village celebrating. As the camera pans round

00:24:16
this village that you saved, what do we see of each character? How are

00:24:19
they, how are they celebrating this? And what's lovely is players

00:24:22
will call back to scenes beforehand and say, oh, well, I'll go in

00:24:25
there. I'm going to go and see that. That dwarf barmaid that

00:24:27
we chated to before. And if I can see if I can chat to

00:24:30
her and you just get it, just gives it a bit more,

00:24:33
versatilitude, which is another word that.

00:24:35
>> Clint Scheirer: I'm not sure I love that word.

00:24:37
>> Speaker A: But it makes it feel like you're.

00:24:38
>> Clint Scheirer: See the believability.

00:24:40
>> Speaker A: Y.

00:24:40
>> Clint Scheirer: No, you got it, you got it.

00:24:41
>> Speaker A: You're seeing a snapshot of these lives. We don't see either

00:24:44
side of it, but we know there's another side of it. There were characters before,

00:24:47
there'd be characters afterwards.

00:24:48
>> Clint Scheirer: That makes sense. Yeah. No, that's wonderful. I'm so glad somebody

00:24:51
else uses the word versitude. That's

00:24:54
great.

00:24:55
my next thought is, is there a

00:24:58
vignette that you remember? Either

00:25:01
one that you gave one that a player gave that like,

00:25:04
still sticks with you? Maybe there's many, but like, can you pick

00:25:07
one and share it?

00:25:09
>> Speaker A: I think, yeah. So

00:25:11
I did. I get. It's. It's a bit of a

00:25:14
cheat because the one that stands out is from a game of Fiasco.

00:25:17
And Fiasco has a. O great game. But it has an

00:25:20
explicit sort of aftermath, doesn't it? That I probably

00:25:23
stole it from that actually. But it has aftermath where

00:25:26
you do have to do the characters afterwards. And there's a bit of mechanical thing to

00:25:29
it, I think. When

00:25:32
the first edition of Fiasco, came out, the

00:25:35
sort of gaming club that I was in, we ended up

00:25:37
sort of by accident playing Fiasco every week

00:25:40
with a different place at every week for about 15 or 16

00:25:43
weeks. So we got just

00:25:46
immersed into it and we played. There

00:25:49
used to be a playse set for First Edition where you

00:25:51
are immortal Cthulhu

00:25:54
cultists. and we played this. It

00:25:57
was that really tight three player game. And at some point

00:26:00
it ended up with one of the characters being like

00:26:03
was a vampire. They got staked and like

00:26:06
bricked in a wall in a cellar.

00:26:09
And it being Fiasco, this happened

00:26:12
with several of that character's seen still to go.

00:26:15
So they had to sort of somehow show how they're influencing the plot

00:26:18
as it did. And their aftermath. Their vignette was just. We

00:26:20
had a brick wall

00:26:23
dimly lit. This is like 100 years

00:26:26
later. And we're just see a brick being tapped

00:26:29
out of the wall O and then another

00:26:31
hand appeared and just pressed it back in.

00:26:34
No. Who's that other hand? We don't know. But it

00:26:37
was that thing of like. Yeah. It can just be something as

00:26:40
tight as that. It doesn't need to be. Even have your character in it.

00:26:43
>> Clint Scheirer: Can bee end credits right there.

00:26:46
That's marvelous. Yeah, I love that. I love

00:26:48
Fiasco. I think, Jason Morningstar is somebody

00:26:51
who's active in the R RPG Reddit

00:26:54
community.

00:26:55
>> Speaker A: U.

00:26:55
>> Clint Scheirer: and it's just so cool when his name pops up. Yeah.

00:26:58
And he like chimes in very humbly like with

00:27:01
is some of his thoughts and whatever. So really appreciate

00:27:04
that guy.

00:27:05
>> Speaker A: It's a really good game for. I think it's a really

00:27:08
good game to improve your play as well as a player or a

00:27:10
gm. Particularly as a player. just get a couple of games if you ask

00:27:13
it. I mean he'll focus is another one like that actually.

00:27:16
But by taking away some of the paraphernalia we

00:27:19
rely on, it really makes you think

00:27:22
about how your play works and

00:27:24
it means you can bring those skills into other games.

00:27:27
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah. The story, the scene, the movie making

00:27:30
the storytelling. Like I think that Only adds, adds

00:27:33
to the, the flavor.

00:27:35
All right, next question. What

00:27:37
techniques help players feel invested

00:27:40
in their characters quickly when they're never

00:27:43
played again after a few hours? Now you've already mentioned

00:27:46
the vignettes, right? Like giving them what happened before, what do

00:27:49
they look like? What's their action scene? you talked about,

00:27:52
you know, as they're, as they're sitting down at the

00:27:54
table explaining the rules but then setting the scene

00:27:57
of you know, what does this look like in the game

00:28:00
world? You know, what are some other tips?

00:28:03
What are some other ways that you think this could

00:28:05
happen?

00:28:06
>> Speaker A: So a really good way to do it and something that you

00:28:09
can be tempted to miss out if you're playing

00:28:12
a one shot. but in some games I think it's

00:28:15
absolutely essential if you're going toa have any sor of

00:28:17
conflicting agendas or even sort of

00:28:20
PvP sort of slight things in here,

00:28:23
is to do something like Bonds. So Bonds

00:28:26
originally comes from Apocalypse World. Lots

00:28:29
of games have adopted it. So also I mean the freely

00:28:32
games have adopted it as well. So Vase and, and Mutant Year

00:28:35
zero which are pretty traditional games really in terms of

00:28:38
their thing. They will have bonds and you can make them up for

00:28:41
any game really. So it's almost like

00:28:44
you have some blanks in. So this character is someone that will

00:28:47
always look after me. This character. So

00:28:49
Blank Blank will always look after me. Blank is

00:28:52
reckless and in over his head. And you just go around

00:28:55
and get the players to pick another after they've introduced, after they've done their

00:28:58
film vignette, get each player to pick

00:29:01
two of the other characters to fill in, in those things,

00:29:03
in those statements and then you've got sor of

00:29:06
that instant role playing thing with it. Because when

00:29:09
you're playing characters for the first time some players will be quite

00:29:12
reluctant to actually rolepl play

00:29:15
with each other. They can be quite shy with

00:29:17
it. so that just gives them an instant hook.

00:29:20
So you know, you think the dwarf is reckless. So when

00:29:23
he suggests something you've got something to say and you can do

00:29:26
it. The other little trick, and this sounds It took me a while

00:29:29
to pick this up but it works really really well. If you

00:29:32
want investment in character comes from inhabiting character

00:29:35
and from talk like speaking in

00:29:37
character, having some discussion in it. Particularly in a game like

00:29:40
D20 & D or 13th age where a lot of what the

00:29:43
system's getting you to do is like

00:29:46
attack orcs with axes and things. So you need

00:29:49
that extra role playing thing. having one or

00:29:52
two non player characters that are with

00:29:55
the characters at the same time

00:29:57
that are a little bit controversial

00:30:01
will really help to get that because they can

00:30:03
just start a conversation and then

00:30:06
before they know what players will respond then another character can get

00:30:09
involved. It's a really good safety net to have. I

00:30:12
mean in the thirteenth age Florantha game this duck

00:30:15
adventurer insists on coming with them in a

00:30:17
really weird.

00:30:18
>> Clint Scheirer: Sort of like they ant enteromorphic duck that

00:30:20
whispering.

00:30:21
>> Speaker A: Well it's really. It's often the thing where like they're kind of oh it's really

00:30:24
dangerous. I'm definitely not going back there. And you

00:30:27
manipulate to the players, always persuade them to come with

00:30:29
them. and so they can play a big part in the

00:30:32
game by talking to lots of people or a really small part in

00:30:35
the game and just sit in the background and people forget they're there. And it just

00:30:38
depends on whether the players need that little

00:30:41
push to go into roleplay with that.

00:30:44
But having an NPC around with them. In

00:30:47
Dungeon Cor Classics I've even done it with just a couple of

00:30:49
highillings even though you know they really

00:30:52
flavourable heights are that halfling tailor that you bribe to

00:30:55
come along with you. He's absolutely useless to the

00:30:58
party in combat or in any sort of game thing

00:31:01
apart from I can put him in danger really easily to

00:31:04
make sure you keep taking risks. And he's really

00:31:06
talkative so he'll make you talk to each other.

00:31:09
and that sort of I

00:31:12
suppose it's Conversational lubricant. NPC

00:31:15
is what you need and that's a really good trick to get

00:31:18
there. I mean it also comes into how you

00:31:21
design your pre gens. talking about cliche, it's

00:31:24
also about. It's a lot easier for characters for players to get into

00:31:26
character if their characters are easy to understand.

00:31:29
So in a fantasy game I will have like

00:31:32
a haughty elf wizard. I will have a big

00:31:35
brutish barbarian who just wants to hit things.

00:31:38
Having some cliche in there and then some more interesting

00:31:41
things for players that want to stretch themselves a little

00:31:44
bit more is a good way to get it on there. Don't give

00:31:47
players. I think I've played. I don't know if you've ever played any like

00:31:50
free form laps or anything like that.

00:31:52
Fantastic. Another thing that will make you a better player but often

00:31:55
they're often one shots and you're given your

00:31:58
character and it's often like six pages of

00:32:01
text that you've got to read. And I'm into that. I'm

00:32:04
a fast reader and I volunteer to do it. But I'm always like, I'm

00:32:07
gonna forget something. I'mnna forget

00:32:10
something here. I don't know how I'm going toa play this character. Like so just give

00:32:13
them it. Really simple.

00:32:15
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah. So several thoughts came up. I

00:32:18
don't know if it's fate, the game

00:32:20
fate. They, they did an activity

00:32:23
which I actually stole for a, Pathfinder 2E

00:32:26
2e campaign that I wanted to run where it

00:32:28
connects the bonds amongst the player

00:32:31
characters. FIA asksco also does a really good job at

00:32:34
that. And they have cards where it's just like you have to have a bond with

00:32:37
the person either to your right or to your left.

00:32:40
And it does just add another level

00:32:43
of versatilitude because now these

00:32:45
characters aren't just disjointed random people. They all

00:32:48
somehow are connected. It's pretty neat.

00:32:52
I guess my question, and this is, this is a

00:32:54
selfish question. Cause you played a lot of one shots.

00:32:57
What's a one shot character that you

00:33:00
loved playing that you still remember playing

00:33:03
that? Like if somebody said, hey, pick one of the one

00:33:06
shot characters that you've played in your time and

00:33:09
bring them back to life and bring him to this next sess,

00:33:12
what, what would that character be?

00:33:15
>> Speaker A: So, I mean I tend to.

00:33:18
There's the thing about playing one shot characters and there's probably another

00:33:20
podcast about playing one shots. there's always this thing about

00:33:23
there's not enough discussion about how to get the most as a

00:33:26
player from games. so I tend to

00:33:29
be sort of, you know, I'll often, if I'm at a

00:33:31
convention, I tend to pick the

00:33:34
simplest possible character that I

00:33:37
can play. just because if I'm running

00:33:40
games the rest of the time I just want to sit and like pile into

00:33:42
it and just be like that. I do remember.

00:33:45
I mean I have an awful lot of funness. It's very recently

00:33:48
that I play this character. but we had a one shot of

00:33:51
Cold City on the channel, which is

00:33:54
a, Cold War

00:33:57
Berlin, post war Berlin monster hunting game.

00:34:00
And you play characters from different factions and do it. And it

00:34:03
was. I still want to go back to

00:34:05
Brenda, my American nurse. It started

00:34:08
out, started out with her sort

00:34:11
of problem was she'd been infected by this mysterious.

00:34:14
There's all kinds of strange sort of technology going on

00:34:16
it. And in the very first scene I tried to

00:34:19
cure it and completely failed the Rolel and it ended up getting Much

00:34:22
worse. And then that rolled with it in the whole time. So

00:34:25
it's like, oh, Brenda, can you help me get this door off? And I used

00:34:28
my infected arm and like wrenched it off. And everyone's like, ah, are you

00:34:31
sure? You're so wanting to do good, but

00:34:33
clearly there's lots going on. It's just that thing of lot. I'd

00:34:36
love to go back and do a few more sessions of what's

00:34:39
actually going to happen to Brenda.

00:34:41
>> Clint Scheirer: Do you have an American accent?

00:34:44
>> Speaker A: I did not have an American accent. I mean one of my one shot

00:34:47
like adviceors is

00:34:50
don't do meri. Don't do accents. Like if

00:34:52
your players must, they can do them. But

00:34:55
I just find it, it's a minefield.

00:34:58
I, I'm playing a coup.

00:35:00
>> Clint Scheirer: It's distracting.

00:35:00
>> Speaker A: Well, in a couple of weeks I'm going to, you know, I'm going to Germany to playing in a

00:35:03
really an international convention with people.

00:35:06
So there's no chance it would

00:35:08
be. Nobody needs to try and interpret what

00:35:11
my dreadful, French accent is from

00:35:14
that.

00:35:15
>> Clint Scheirer: That's phenomenal.

00:35:16
Can running one shots improve a GM's ability to run long

00:35:19
term campaigns to improve their storytelling? I

00:35:22
think this is a loaded question. we

00:35:24
obviously believe yes, but, but

00:35:27
why, like why. Why do you feel

00:35:30
that doing these One shots can help in a

00:35:33
campaign that's happening. Happening more than once?

00:35:37
>> Speaker A: So I blogged about

00:35:39
this a while ago actually because I had a moment after.

00:35:42
Well it actually during COVID and Lockdown where I started

00:35:45
previously I've been pretty much all One Shots and I'd started running

00:35:48
a lot of online games then because I.

00:35:51
There wasn't a lot else for us to do was there when you

00:35:54
could leave the house and you were locked down. and a lot of it was

00:35:57
about a lot of my approach to running

00:36:00
campaigns is very similar to One Shots. It's just a bunch

00:36:03
of episodes. One Shots will make you really good at

00:36:06
pace. They'll make you really good at telling a tight

00:36:08
story. I personally much

00:36:11
prefer a campaign where each session

00:36:14
is a little bit of a bundled up

00:36:17
episode. So it's got a structure

00:36:20
within it and it ends with something good and it starts with something

00:36:23
big. I'm thinking of Sly Flourish again. Mike Sha has that, doesn't

00:36:26
he? That's how you do.

00:36:27
>> Clint Scheirer: He's just integrated the way that I do gmg.

00:36:29
>> Speaker A: So.

00:36:29
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah, yeah, ye.

00:36:30
>> Speaker A: Yeah. And actually when I've run, I mean

00:36:33
shout out to Sly Flourish for lazy Dungeon Master is

00:36:36
absolutely the way that I prep ongoing campaigns.

00:36:39
It is just. I don't know what I'd do without

00:36:41
it really from there. So things like making each thing

00:36:44
episodic in an ongoing campaign. I would also

00:36:47
say one thing that can tweak it, that can really, really

00:36:50
make your campaignsing is just give each episode

00:36:53
a title. When you're doing your prep for next week, think right,

00:36:56
what's this called? Because what are we doing? Even if it's like

00:36:59
the Elf Barrow or whatever, it just

00:37:01
give makes it everything fit together

00:37:04
in one little thing and you can do it. So one shot'make

00:37:07
you really good at pacing. I think that running

00:37:10
lots of different games with lots of different people is

00:37:12
good. It gets you a

00:37:15
broader appreciation for the hobby and it gives you a different

00:37:18
experience. I think that playing one shots is really good as

00:37:21
well. I try and keep it as

00:37:24
close to 50, 50 as I can in terms of GMing and

00:37:27
playing sessions. And I think I really

00:37:30
feel for people who are like forever GMs who are having

00:37:33
to run for their groups again and again. It's that

00:37:36
paradigm. I think if you expected to do it all the time

00:37:39
because you become a better GM by playing

00:37:41
in other sessions, by playing with good

00:37:44
gems, but also by playing in with

00:37:47
gems where it doesn't sit. I'm not going to say worst gems,

00:37:50
but I've played in some one shots where it

00:37:53
hasn't really been for me and I've had three hours and it's

00:37:56
been quite fine. I can accept that other

00:37:59
people have had a lot of fun and the GMs worked really hard. Wasn't

00:38:01
really for me the way that that worked. But I've still got loads of

00:38:04
tips from it because I can think, well, why didn't that work? What was

00:38:07
it that happened? And actually there's a bit of

00:38:10
that that I do that maybe I shouldn't do if that's not what I like.

00:38:13
So. And I've had situations, several times where

00:38:16
I've played in one shot of systems where

00:38:20
I've walked away and thought, it's okay, it wasn't amazing. But I

00:38:23
really want to run that game myself because I can

00:38:25
see how I would twist it and do it. So I think

00:38:28
just lots of play is good. And having one

00:38:31
shots under your belt means that you get more play

00:38:34
and more diverse play.

00:38:36
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah. Re you're doing iterations of your craft.

00:38:38
Yeah, that's pretty awesome.

00:38:40
do you run any long term or is it all one shot

00:38:43
nowadays?

00:38:44
>> Speaker A: So I do. I've just

00:38:47
got a few things I'VE not got one at the moment.

00:38:50
I tend to, I mean I tend to with long

00:38:53
term campaigns as well. A campaign for me

00:38:56
is sort of four to 12 sessions. and if it's going to go

00:38:59
longer than that, stop, take a break, play something

00:39:01
else and come back to it. And it just keeps it fresh and makes it

00:39:05
manageable. eight sessions is about the ideal I think

00:39:07
for a good sort of arc of what it is.

00:39:10
I've actually played in some more more recently. but yeah

00:39:13
I do. I'mra. I've got a short run of Slug Blaster that

00:39:16
I'm running in a few weeks, through Open Hearth which

00:39:19
is a really good community to get involved in if you want to

00:39:23
play one shots or long form games. and yeah,

00:39:25
I've also got so of the middle ground of it. I don't know if this

00:39:28
is something you've heard of Clint.Scheirer@claimtogamepodcast.com, but

00:39:31
we've got something called Long Con in the uk

00:39:34
where it's a convention. It's at the same

00:39:37
place as a lot of our other conventions are. Ah, but the idea is

00:39:40
you sign up and you just play a game or weekend.

00:39:42
So while it's a one shot, it's a whole campaign that you

00:39:45
fit in sort of three sessions on Saturday, two sessions

00:39:48
on Sunday. You can get a massive thing we did a few

00:39:51
years ago we did, I played in the Dracula Dossier,

00:39:54
know Ken Height's sort of Dracula masterpiece of

00:39:57
that I should say Ken Height and goy around a hand hand. He wrote a lot

00:40:00
of it as well, didn't he? Oh yeah.

00:40:01
>> Clint Scheirer: There's a team of people, Pellegran Press

00:40:04
duo.

00:40:05
>> Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, stuff. So stuff like that is a really

00:40:08
tight way to do it. So it's a weekend away but you'll get

00:40:11
a whole campaign in it from there.

00:40:12
>> Clint Scheirer: This is the question that I ask everybody on my

00:40:15
channel and I think it's

00:40:18
tough because sometimes I've given people advanced warning

00:40:21
of this question and other times I have not and

00:40:24
I put them on the spot and they're like trying to count on their fingers

00:40:27
exactly how many words but, but I, I

00:40:30
love, I love this. It comes from Eric Newsom. he used

00:40:33
to be an NPR news writer. He does a lot

00:40:36
of pop culture fiction. Not fiction but I guess

00:40:38
nonfiction writing. I got his newsletter actually just today in

00:40:41
my inbox. So he's still active, still does things, but

00:40:44
he always challenges any team that he's on

00:40:47
to create a 10 word phrase

00:40:49
that really with the economy of words,

00:40:52
no more, no less. You can't go nine, you can't go

00:40:55
11. What is the core message that

00:40:58
you want people to carry with you when it comes to

00:41:01
pacing? The art of getting

00:41:04
players emotionally connected in a one shot game or

00:41:07
I guess any campaign, if we're treating every

00:41:09
session as a one shot, what is your 10 word

00:41:12
phrase that everybody has to remember?

00:41:16
>> Speaker A: So I approach this a bit differently which I guess is what you'd

00:41:19
expect from someone who is running lots

00:41:21
of hour and a half to two hour one

00:41:24
shots. So I went even further

00:41:27
with economy because I wrote a 10 word phrase and then I cut it down and said,

00:41:30
well, what's the minimum thing? I've got two

00:41:33
word phrase actually, which I'm going to offer you, which

00:41:36
I think is better than the ten word phrase I had before. Those

00:41:39
other eight words were extraneous and could be cut out. I

00:41:42
think the thing that I would say for one shot play and for

00:41:44
all the kind of you, the play culture that we do is just

00:41:47
play hard. It's about driving pace, it's

00:41:50
about investing in your character straight away. It's

00:41:53
about driving towards

00:41:55
not just action but also role playing

00:41:58
investment, emotional investment with the characters,

00:42:01
play with the other players and so on. But just

00:42:05
play hard.

00:42:05
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah, I love that you said get invested.

00:42:08
Yeah, there's nothing u, I know

00:42:11
that Robin, Robin D Laws in his book about

00:42:14
the laws of good game mastering talks about the

00:42:17
casual player that just wants to hang out and

00:42:19
have fun. Nothing wrong with that. That's a,

00:42:22
that's a player type. That's hard for me because I really

00:42:25
love it when other people are getting invested in the story

00:42:28
and what's going on.

00:42:30
Is there anything you feel like we're missing? Is there

00:42:33
anything in your mind that you, you know, maybe has come up since we've

00:42:36
talked or come up, or that you've been wanting to

00:42:38
say and you just haven't had a platform or people

00:42:41
to listen.

00:42:42
>> Speaker A: I think the main thing is just that thing. I sort

00:42:45
of. My mantra is that I think one shot

00:42:47
should be afforded just as much

00:42:51
respect and attention and it should be,

00:42:54
it's just as much a valid form of play as a long

00:42:57
form campaign. And actually it would be

00:43:00
good if our games and our systems

00:43:03
supported that a bit better. So I'll give you some

00:43:06
examples why games are published

00:43:09
now, how you can have games. I've got a few in

00:43:11
mind that I won't mention that are really exciting

00:43:15
games that have been brought out, they've gone to Kickstarter,

00:43:17
they've been published. There's character creation

00:43:20
rules, there's all the rules for the setting in

00:43:23
there. There aren't any pre gens and there

00:43:26
isn't an adventure that you can do with it. I'm just like,

00:43:28
why, why are people bringing this out without bringing

00:43:31
in the quick start or the adventure first?

00:43:35
why do we have games that

00:43:38
Why isn't there a one shot mode attached to them? Lots of

00:43:41
games. There are a few games now that will say, right, if you want to run this in the one shot,

00:43:44
just do this. If you want to, just do it. So Die is a

00:43:47
fantastic example of it. It's quite a difficult game to get your head around

00:43:50
you without, without, going

00:43:53
into too much detail. You're playing gamers

00:43:56
trapped in a fantasy world, reliving your

00:43:59
trauma as gamers in the real world.

00:44:01
>> Clint Scheirer: And then you have to decide at the end whether or not you want to go

00:44:04
back or not. Right. Yeah. I love Grant

00:44:07
Howitt. I absolutely love most of his, I shouldn't say

00:44:10
all of his work pretty much. So yeah, go ahead.

00:44:12
>> Speaker A: But it's hard to get in the game. It's got right. If you want

00:44:15
to do a one shot of this, which you probably do because

00:44:18
it's a hard sell to get people to come in for eight weeks and

00:44:21
say, yeah, you're going to be playing, adults in the real world and in a

00:44:24
fantasy world and you're going to be exploring the trauma that your

00:44:27
characters have had and it's going to be quite messy. There's a one

00:44:30
shot in the game called Total Party

00:44:32
Kill. Really straightforward, tells you exactly what to do

00:44:35
with timings on and everything. Why can't more games have that?

00:44:38
why isn't there a D20 & D? You know, the starter set is all well and

00:44:41
good. You can't run through

00:44:44
Lost Minds of Fandelvea in three hours, can

00:44:47
you?

00:44:48
>> Clint Scheirer: No.

00:44:49
>> Speaker A: and there will be that. There's another podcast being recorded

00:44:52
right now by someone who's saying the probably with Lost Minds of

00:44:55
Thrandelvea is we only got like five sessions of play out of

00:44:58
it. There's not enough in there. But why isn't that

00:45:01
option as well? Why isn't there right, this a one shot. Just hand these out,

00:45:03
get through it and do it. I'll shout out. One of the

00:45:06
best quick starts that I've seen is a game called Fabula

00:45:09
Ultima.

00:45:10
>> Clint Scheirer: Oh yeah, yeah.

00:45:11
>> Speaker A: Jrpg. It's quick Start, press start is amazing.

00:45:14
It even has. You have a character sheet that's numbered

00:45:16
sections. Each scene of the adventure unlocks a

00:45:19
different bit of your char sheet. It's like, I don't know,

00:45:22
somebody has actually, I'm sure somebody

00:45:25
in the design team is a teacher or a

00:45:28
trainer or has actually has some knowledge of that because it's just

00:45:31
so easy to play and run. And even as you run, you run lot those

00:45:34
rules you go like why don't we have more of that? Why don't we have

00:45:37
more people thinking right here's a one shot. So if you get like

00:45:40
six people. I've a situation six people want to discover D20 &

00:45:43
D. I've, I've heard about it. I've played Baldur's Gate. I want to

00:45:46
play a role playing game. I want to do D20 & D because it's what I've heard

00:45:49
of. And I'd always say don't be sniffy

00:45:51
about D20 & D if it's not the game that you play all the time. If you want to play D20 &

00:45:54
D, run D20 & D for them. Like

00:45:57
why isn't there a pack that we can just do it and then

00:46:00
they'll get three hours of fun and be like ye, this is alrigh.

00:46:03
Now I'll go and now I'll invest some more

00:46:05
time into it or now I'll look at other games and now I'll do it.

00:46:08
>> Clint Scheirer: When Drive Thru RPG has done a really good job

00:46:11
allowing creators to create one shots. I

00:46:14
remember I was so sick of never

00:46:17
being able to get my players to the highest

00:46:20
level. Right. Because campaigns take

00:46:22
forever. So I just had a made level

00:46:25
18 characters and found somebody who had made a one shot

00:46:28
for level 18 characters really well. I'll actually put a link

00:46:31
in the show notes to that particular game. It was

00:46:34
phenomenal. but wow.

00:46:37
So overpowered. Our

00:46:40
people were basically gods in this world. Just

00:46:43
sloshing through all these high level monsters. But you're right.

00:46:46
>> Speaker A: Yeah. I always have this thing with D20 & D where'almost like it's not that complicated.

00:46:49
It's fine. I've done it. I don't play loads Ann. But then, then

00:46:52
I ran a campaign of it a couple of years back

00:46:54
and there was a moment, there's a moment where they hit sixth

00:46:57
level where I was like o know actually this is quite hard work now.

00:47:00
I't. That's why down in sort of level 1, 2 and 3

00:47:03
which is where you end up playing a lot. It's pretty straightforward,

00:47:06
easy to GM not Too many rules involved. Wants to hit sixth

00:47:09
level. You're like, oh, hang on a minute, I need to actually think about some of

00:47:11
this.

00:47:12
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah. I also don't, you know, pooo.

00:47:15
D20 & D. Yeah. But it was my gateway drug

00:47:18
to tabletop RPGs because I got to a point where I'm

00:47:21
like, what else is there? And wow.

00:47:24
Yeah, there is so much else out there

00:47:27
that, that can really wet the pallet of almost any,

00:47:30
any form of storytelling that you want. Any genre

00:47:33
that you would be interested in beyond just the fantasy genre.

00:47:36
So that's a really awesome perspective

00:47:38
that. Why isn't there more? I

00:47:41
almost think of it like a video game tutorial.

00:47:43
>> Speaker A: Yeah.

00:47:44
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah, Right.

00:47:45
If I was starting a game, it would be like press A to swing and

00:47:48
then later on it's telling me how I can go into my inventory

00:47:51
and heal myself after I get one damage from a little

00:47:53
imp that took down my H ##p, a few points. So,

00:47:57
if people want to connect with you more, if they wanna

00:47:59
see what your work is all about, learn more about

00:48:02
what you do, where can they find you?

00:48:05
Where should they go?

00:48:08
>> Speaker A: So I, am. If you want to connect me on Blue

00:48:11
Sky, I'm burn after running on there. I

00:48:13
also. That's your best bet at getting me on social

00:48:16
media, to be honest, these days.

00:48:19
I also. You'll also see The Unconventional Gems

00:48:22
YouTube channel we've talked about. Myself and my co host

00:48:25
Gaz, who's also the Smart Party podcast in the uk.

00:48:27
do tight two hour one shots with Pace VI and

00:48:30
Vigor. We've got loads of games on the apps that we've got D20 & D on there.

00:48:33
We've got, you know, a wide range and if you

00:48:36
want to see how different games can be, just

00:48:39
have a look at that and see that I.

00:48:41
>> Clint Scheirer: Was hard pressed to find a game that you guys hadn't

00:48:44
done that I was interested in when I went to your YouTube

00:48:46
channel.

00:48:47
>> Speaker A: Yeah, we've got a big list. We've got a list of stuff that

00:48:50
we're rotating through as well from there. and I blog at Burn

00:48:53
afternning. it's burnasterrunningrpg.com if you go

00:48:56
to burnafterrunning.coma, that's another guy that does a blog about

00:48:59
running. Not games, just running.

00:49:01
So burnafrunning rpg.com if you want to follow that. If you

00:49:04
like the stuff that's on there. There's loads of prepped one

00:49:07
shots as well as me saying what I reckon

00:49:10
about things and trying to comment on stuff. if you use

00:49:13
anything on there, I also have a Patreon that supports that.

00:49:16
So it's absolutely fine. If you want to support that or if you don't,

00:49:19
just tell people about it. It's great. it just,

00:49:22
helps to fund Internet the Internet

00:49:25
people to keep it online. But yeah, be great to connect with

00:49:28
people and we'll have to. Clint, we'll have to get you on on conventional

00:49:30
Gems.

00:49:31
>> Clint Scheirer: Oh my gosh. That would be a dream. That would be

00:49:34
a dream. I'd be so pumped. well thanks again guy for

00:49:37
coming. Thanks for being on the podcast. We hope to see more from you

00:49:40
and from the unconventional GMs and burn after running and all

00:49:43
the cool stuff that you do in the future.

00:49:45
thanks again.

00:49:47
>> Speaker A: It's been a pleasure.

00:49:47
>> Clint Scheirer: Clint Y so just play

00:49:50
hard. Play hard. Please hit like and

00:49:53
subscribe if you enjoyed hearing from Guai today and you wantna hear more

00:49:56
wisdom, power and love from others who want to have a great time

00:49:59
with friends and experience amazing stories through tabletop role

00:50:02
playing games. And may you keep having fun as you

00:50:05
continue to make that claim to game.