Claim to Game Podcast
039: Should You Pay for a Pro GM? - With David Northeast
Claim to GameMay 08, 2025
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039: Should You Pay for a Pro GM? - With David Northeast

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#39 - Does a "real" tabletop gamer - someone who truly loves this hobby - pay to play? Many wonder if hiring a Professional Game Master for your next one-shot or campaign is selling out or simply wasting money. In this episode, we welcome back David Northeast, a professional GM himself, to explore these questions and shed light on the growing trend of paid game mastering.

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00:00:00
>> Clint Scheirer: Does a real tabletop gamer, someone

00:00:03
who truly loves this hobby, pay to play?

00:00:06
Many wonder if hiring a professional game master for your next one

00:00:09
shot or campaign is just selling out or simply

00:00:12
wasting money. And ill ll be honest with you all. This was something

00:00:15
I was adamantly against when I first started

00:00:18
playing tabletop role playing games. I would have never paid

00:00:21
a professional GM to do something that I felt I could do

00:00:24
pretty darn good on my own. But in this

00:00:26
episode we are welcoming back David North, East, a

00:00:29
professional GM himself to explore these questions

00:00:32
and shed light on the growing trend of

00:00:35
paid game mastering. And if after the episode you're

00:00:38
still unsure whether to hire a professional GM

00:00:40
or to do it yourself, go ahead and click on the link

00:00:43
in the show notes.

00:00:44
We have a free quiz called Should I

00:00:47
pay for a pro gm? Just answer a few easy

00:00:49
questions and you'll have clear direction on which way you

00:00:52
should go. Welcome to Claim to Game. We help

00:00:55
tabletop gamers have a great time with friends to

00:00:58
experience amazing stories. It can be overwhelming to start

00:01:01
and run great games. Let'make it easy

00:01:04
for you to play any game that you want to have fun with

00:01:07
your friends. I'm Clint Scheirer. I've helped thousands

00:01:10
of students in my career find their way to better

00:01:13
themselves and better their game. With more than 10

00:01:15
years experience in leadership, coaching, live

00:01:18
performance and public speaking, I I know I can help

00:01:21
you create immersive, low stress games

00:01:24
youll never forget.

00:01:25
Its time to make your claim to game.

00:01:55
What's something you've been dying to tell

00:01:58
people? You know, what is something you've been dying to tell people that you think is

00:02:01
so important and for those listeners who want to

00:02:04
enjoy fantastic authentic

00:02:06
worlds with deep characters and they may not feel

00:02:09
confident being vgm or dm that they're playing D20 &

00:02:12
D, you know, what would you say to them about

00:02:15
the value of hiring a professional game master?

00:02:18
How does a professional world building u

00:02:21
connoisseur I would say like you were you

00:02:24
savor what you're creating here. How does somebody hiring

00:02:27
someone like you contribute to just a

00:02:29
fantastic experience?

00:02:31
>> David North: I will preface again by saying that

00:02:33
if you are not ready to gm, that's

00:02:36
absolutely fine. If you have a group of friends

00:02:39
and you want to go GM'do it.

00:02:42
Try it. Play hot seatgm. You know,

00:02:45
have a seat swapper and people taking over

00:02:48
that seat all the time.

00:02:50
I advocate for free games

00:02:53
as much as I do for paid games. And that sounds weird

00:02:56
because I'm a professional gm. What do I mean by, that, well,

00:02:59
if you are an individual in

00:03:02
a group of friends and you want to play D20 &

00:03:05
D, go and play D20 & D with your friends

00:03:08
and try your hand at gme. Just do

00:03:11
it. Don't think too much about it. Don't worry

00:03:14
about, you know, oh, I can't do the silly voices or

00:03:17
what. What if I don't have enough prep time? If you don't have

00:03:20
enough prep time, grab the book and throw it over your shoulder and go. We're

00:03:23
gonna improvise this entire thing. What do

00:03:26
you think about that, boys? you know,

00:03:28
but obviously, I get there's a level of apprehension

00:03:31
there. If you are a group of players,

00:03:34
and this is one that really grinds my Go. If you are a

00:03:37
group of five or six players,

00:03:40
and you come online and you

00:03:43
go, we want this very

00:03:45
specific campaign run for us in

00:03:48
this very specific way.

00:03:51
Will you DM for us for free?

00:03:55
Well, the answer that you will find

00:03:57
from most DMs is no.

00:04:00
Even the people willing to run games for free online

00:04:03
is going to be no. And I'll tell you why.

00:04:06
There are already six of you. You already

00:04:09
have a really good idea as to what you

00:04:12
want to run. And the question is, why? aren't one of

00:04:15
you giving it a go? Now, not

00:04:17
everyone is adept at being a gm.

00:04:20
Not everyone suits being a gm, just like not

00:04:23
everyone suits being a player.

00:04:26
You know, I know GMs that refuse to

00:04:29
play because they just cannot get in that player

00:04:32
mindset. If you

00:04:34
want to go and hire a professional gm,

00:04:37
ask them questions.

00:04:40
You are hiring them for a service. Don't

00:04:43
just jump into the first game you see and you think,

00:04:46
I like the sound of that. Really go into

00:04:49
depth. Ask for their

00:04:52
experience. Ask for proof of

00:04:54
their experience. Ask for video recordings,

00:04:58
ask for audio recordings.

00:05:00
Ask for, you know,

00:05:03
anything that they can give you to prove to you they are

00:05:06
worth their buck. Because I know there are

00:05:08
also people out there that are

00:05:11
professional GMs that are

00:05:15
advertising their services for hire, but they are just

00:05:18
reading from a book. And

00:05:21
this is the problem that I'm facing as

00:05:24
a professional gm who actually cares about what I'm

00:05:26
doing, who cares about the effort that I put

00:05:29
in. And, you know, I'm in the

00:05:32
process of writing my own materials.

00:05:36
You really, really do need to vet

00:05:38
GMs as much as DMs need to

00:05:41
vet you. You can offer to run a game

00:05:44
for free online. It's really not

00:05:47
that expensive. There are services and products out there

00:05:50
that will allow you to do it. And, the worst case scenario is

00:05:53
you do it. Theatre of the mind and make

00:05:56
it up as you go. There are free dice rolling

00:05:59
apps and all that kind of stuff on discord.

00:06:02
Just do it is my advice.

00:06:05
You know, if you want to hire a gm,

00:06:07
fantastic, but vet them first.

00:06:10
Make sure you know you're getting

00:06:13
the bang for your buck.

00:06:15
>> Clint Scheirer: Something that I have never had the

00:06:18
opportunity to do is to play with a professional

00:06:21
gm. And just talking to you

00:06:24
right now in this episode and also

00:06:27
the previous one, it is very

00:06:29
clear why have you

00:06:32
would call it a craft like this is not just

00:06:35
somebody telling, a funny story or doing

00:06:38
funny voices. It's somebody who is really giving thought

00:06:41
to breathing life into the world. and if you haven't

00:06:44
gone back, go ahead and listen to when David and I talked

00:06:47
about world building back in the previous

00:06:49
episode. it, it's, it's crucial,

00:06:52
it's crucial to have somebody who knows what they're doing.

00:06:55
I think I said before we started I would not try to

00:06:58
do my own plumbing in my house and

00:07:01
expect it to one function correctly

00:07:04
and not have a leak. I would ask a professional

00:07:07
to come in and do it. So if that's the kind of experience you

00:07:10
want, you need to pay professional experience if you want the

00:07:13
potentially leakally leaky problem

00:07:16
that you might get. or you're just okay with, you know,

00:07:19
not that top grade tier. Totally,

00:07:22
fine.

00:07:23
>> David North: I think I prefer the analogy

00:07:25
of the restaurant and the home chef.

00:07:28
>> Clint Scheirer: O give it to me.

00:07:29
>> David North: So if,

00:07:32
if you want to run your own game, it

00:07:35
is like you inviting your friends over for a

00:07:38
dinner party. You don't have any

00:07:41
professional experience in the kitchen, but you know how

00:07:44
to follow a recipe. You can get the

00:07:46
ingredients in, you can chop them up, you can throw them in a

00:07:49
frying pan. You know, you can throw it all

00:07:52
together and bring out a

00:07:55
reasonable dish. I've done some fantastic home cooks in

00:07:58
my time. One of them is laying upstairs, but don't tell her I said

00:08:01
that. but I have, I've known some

00:08:04
fantastic home cooks in my time

00:08:07
and, you know, a dinner party and those sorts of

00:08:10
things is nice,

00:08:12
but you still have to put in that effort to go and

00:08:15
cook the meal, prep the meal, make sure you've got all the

00:08:18
ingredients, make sure that you've got everything that you

00:08:21
need to present the meal for a dinner party

00:08:25
versus the restaurant where you phone up,

00:08:28
you book a table for six, you all go

00:08:30
along. None of you are worrying

00:08:33
about the dishes. None of you are worrying about the cooking.

00:08:36
You're just ordering a nice meal and a

00:08:39
drink. But that nice meal and a

00:08:42
drink is coming at an extra cost because there is

00:08:45
extra hands at, play in order to get

00:08:48
all those extra jobs done that need to be

00:08:50
done. And I think that is the key

00:08:53
difference between a, you know, a group of

00:08:56
friends playing D20 & D and hiring a

00:08:59
professional GM to run a D20 & D Game for

00:09:01
you.

00:09:02
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah, I mean, you really answered the question.

00:09:05
This was one of the first questions I was gonna ask to try to

00:09:08
dig into this stigma, right? There's a stigma

00:09:11
that sometimes is around paying somebody to

00:09:14
be your professional gm. And the question was,

00:09:17
why would I pay somebody to do it when I could do it myself for free or

00:09:20
have a friend who is willing to do it? And you're

00:09:23
saying it is the difference between a home cooked meal,

00:09:25
which can be good and enjoyable,

00:09:28
and a professionally made meal, which is just

00:09:31
a wonderful experience that you may not do every

00:09:34
single time.

00:09:35
>> David North: Yeah, exactly.

00:09:36
>> Clint Scheirer: Now I have another question. A gamer. This is

00:09:39
a, this comes up quite, quite a bit. A gamer should

00:09:41
GM for the love of the game, not for

00:09:44
monetary gain. If they want

00:09:47
money, they're selling out. Well, okay, what

00:09:50
is your, what is your rebuttal?

00:09:53
I'm going to ask you to give a rebuttal to some of these questions. What would

00:09:55
you say to somebody that said you're selling out?

00:09:58
>> David North: So, okay, I just turn around to them and say to them,

00:10:01
do they pay an Xbox Live subscription? Do they

00:10:03
play, pay a PlayStation Network subscription?

00:10:07
Do they pay, a Netflix

00:10:09
subscription? Do they play, pay a Disney

00:10:12
subscription? Because you can watch the free

00:10:15
channels on the tv. The

00:10:18
free channels are there, you know, why

00:10:20
pay?

00:10:23
but the other point about that

00:10:26
is if I love what I do

00:10:30
and I can't

00:10:32
commit that time freely,

00:10:36
why am I going to do that whilst

00:10:39
holding down, say a quote, unquote, proper

00:10:42
job? Why am I going to do that,

00:10:44
hold have another job and

00:10:47
try and run a really high

00:10:50
quality game just because I love doing

00:10:53
it? I'm a F, so I'm a family man, I've

00:10:56
got children, I've got a partner,

00:10:58
I've got a life outside of D20 &

00:11:01
D and outside of what I do. If I was to

00:11:04
work and to

00:11:07
have games to the same level of

00:11:10
quality that I do now, I'd be running one game a

00:11:12
week because of the hours

00:11:15
that I put into my games now,

00:11:18
I only consider my hourly rate as,

00:11:22
as the actual game that I run

00:11:25
and I work it out to be about 20 pound per

00:11:28
hour of the game that is actually run.

00:11:31
But if I break it down, it actually comes

00:11:34
down to about 6 or 7

00:11:36
GBP per hour, which is well

00:11:38
under minimum wage. But

00:11:41
that's because I enjoy the worldild building aspect and a lot of

00:11:44
the world building stuff can be reused. A lot

00:11:47
of the storytelling tools can be reused and

00:11:50
recycled later on for other campaigns.

00:11:53
on top of that, there is no such

00:11:56
thing as a free D20 & D Game. There is no such

00:11:59
thing as a free TTPG game.

00:12:03
Yes, the rules for the game are

00:12:06
free online. The rules you

00:12:09
can play with just dice and a piece of paper.

00:12:12
That is totally true. You can play for

00:12:15
free. What do I mean by there's no such

00:12:18
thing as a 3D and D game? Well,

00:12:20
somebody has to host likely

00:12:23
people are going to, want snacks. So someone's going to bring

00:12:26
snacks or you're all going to contribute snacks. So you're

00:12:29
all paying something there. If you're playing in

00:12:32
a shop. Normally shops have a fee

00:12:35
for a table, so you will have to pay a

00:12:38
fee for the table. If you want to

00:12:41
use the official materials or unofficial

00:12:44
materials even quite often you have to

00:12:47
purchase those in order to use them.

00:12:51
Then we get into the

00:12:54
extras that I, As a professional GM,

00:12:57
use Sirenscape. That is

00:13:00
about 20 bucks a month.

00:13:03
I have bought over

00:13:06
2 pounds worth which works

00:13:09
out to be good luck. About

00:13:12
2, 6, about

00:13:13
$2 worth of

00:13:17
modules and extra stuff for

00:13:20
my VTT, which is fantasy

00:13:23
grounds. I

00:13:26
invest in other

00:13:28
projects that I'm working on as well. So I'm working

00:13:31
on releasing a.

00:13:34
I mentioned it in the last episode. I'm working on releasing

00:13:37
my own supplements for D

00:13:40
and d and for 5e. and I'm paying

00:13:43
an artist for that. And you know,

00:13:46
all this it helping fund that.

00:13:49
But the majority of my money goes

00:13:51
back into my business, back into

00:13:55
running games for people. Yes, you can run

00:13:57
D20 & D for free, but the quality is going to

00:14:00
be far less than if you've

00:14:03
got the really cool soundbo board, if you've got really

00:14:06
cool visuals, if you know, if you're playing

00:14:09
online, if you've got good quality equipment such

00:14:12
as microphone and camera,

00:14:15
it's really, really going to

00:14:18
make a difference.

00:14:19
>> Clint Scheirer: So it's not just for

00:14:22
money. It is because you want the

00:14:25
quality to be the level that you want it to

00:14:28
be. You have to be able to be paid for the time that you're

00:14:31
putting into that. Especially when you have other responsibilities

00:14:34
that you have to. You have in life.

00:14:37
>> David North: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean,

00:14:40
don't get me wrong, I've seen some

00:14:42
fantastic GMs run games for free

00:14:45
online, but I have horror stories. But

00:14:48
that's something for another day, I feel.

00:14:51
>> Clint Scheirer: Well, dude, you know, props to you. Like, this

00:14:54
is, it's really giving me a different view

00:14:57
of this profession and the

00:15:00
respect and it's really awesome. I know that I am

00:15:03
definitely of the free sword. I'm making home cooked meals kind of

00:15:06
games for people and

00:15:09
I feel like I'm missing out. I gotta get that cuisine, that

00:15:11
fine, fine dining experience of GMing.

00:15:14
Or maybe not me GMing, but me being a player in a GM

00:15:17
game. There's, there's one final question

00:15:20
and I'm sure it'll lead to some other questions, but professional

00:15:23
gmg, this is the statement.

00:15:25
Professional GMG is financially

00:15:28
gatekeeping the game from those who cant afford

00:15:31
it. What do you have to say to that? Hey, quick pause

00:15:33
in the episode. Have you ever wanted to chat about tabletop

00:15:36
RPGs or share your unique insights

00:15:39
or just geek out about tabletop games with someone who

00:15:42
gets it? Now is your chance. I'm opening up

00:15:45
guest spots on the Claim to Game Podcast and I'd

00:15:48
love to feature you. Are you working on some

00:15:51
exciting project? Do you have a fresh take on

00:15:53
running or playing games? Or do you just want to help others

00:15:56
have an amazing time at the table? Let's make it

00:15:59
happen. If you've got a mic, stable, Internet and a

00:16:02
passion for great games, claim your spot on

00:16:05
a future interview by clicking on the link in the show notes

00:16:08
to book your interview. Now let's talk about Tabletop

00:16:11
rpgs and make something awesome together. Can't wait to

00:16:14
hear from you.

00:16:14
All right, back to the episode.

00:16:17
>> David North: So this is where, the conversation

00:16:19
for me gets difficult because can

00:16:23
relate, I can massively relate to

00:16:25
this issue.

00:16:28
however, it's not financially

00:16:31
gatekeeping the game. As I said, the game is

00:16:34
playable for free. You can go and do it for

00:16:36
free. Unfortunately, it just means

00:16:39
there is going to be a lower level of

00:16:42
quality to the game. And I don't mean that in a

00:16:45
condescending or patronizing way. What I mean is you're

00:16:48
not going to have all the bells and whistles to the game. You're not going to have

00:16:51
the soundboards, you're notnna have,

00:16:54
you know, very, very specific audios. You can go, you

00:16:57
know, if you're running a game for free at home, you can go up,

00:17:00
load up YouTube on a laptop and play

00:17:03
music, but you're gonna have adverts every 30 minutes, you

00:17:06
know, and that there's always going to

00:17:08
be bits and bobs and

00:17:11
eventually you'll find that you start wanting to

00:17:14
invest.

00:17:16
in terms of Saying that professional

00:17:19
GMing is gatekeeping,

00:17:22
I feel that it's an unfair,

00:17:28
it's very, very much an unfair review of

00:17:31
what professional GMing actually is or what

00:17:34
it should be. I should say,

00:17:37
because professional

00:17:40
GMing is

00:17:43
trying to take yourself to that next

00:17:46
level, to that extra fine

00:17:49
dining. Again, going back to the restaurants,

00:17:52
it's like saying that because

00:17:55
people can't eat at a 5M Michelin star, ah,

00:17:58
restaurant, it's gatekeeping food.

00:18:01
>> Clint Scheirer: You know, I'm laughing because it is kind of

00:18:04
a silly argument.

00:18:05
>> David North: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the same

00:18:08
kind of concept. You know, I

00:18:11
understand that it's becoming increasingly more

00:18:14
difficult to find a good DM

00:18:17
for free online, but that's

00:18:19
because those three DMs are fed up

00:18:22
and bored of having to wade

00:18:25
through piles and piles of

00:18:28
toxic and bad players in

00:18:31
order to find the quality of game they want to

00:18:34
run. And I have to say

00:18:37
that I had the same issue.

00:18:40
I used to be of the mind that why would I pay

00:18:43
for a game? Why, why should I pay for a

00:18:45
game? And after being

00:18:48
nearly driven out this hobby, I think on three

00:18:51
separate occasions due to

00:18:55
two due to online gms

00:18:58
and one due to tut to

00:19:01
online players. And you know,

00:19:04
I was running a game, I was trying to stream it

00:19:06
and you know, try and really build something from

00:19:09
it. And I said, you know, guys, if this makes money, if we,

00:19:12
you know, if we get known, I will

00:19:15
compensate you. So I made that very clear to, them. But

00:19:18
unfortunately I had

00:19:20
a, I had three rotating seats at that,

00:19:23
ah, table for the best part of six

00:19:26
months. And I think most people

00:19:29
can relate to that experience, especially running

00:19:32
games online for free. And again,

00:19:35
running games for free for your friends by all means,

00:19:38
but running games online for

00:19:40
strangers, you have to be more

00:19:43
careful when you're doing that as a gm,

00:19:45
because you will find yourself in

00:19:49
all kinds of

00:19:51
unsavory situations, as I have

00:19:54
on many occasion.

00:19:55
>> Clint Scheirer: What other objections have you heard? I'm

00:19:58
sure you've heard it all. Like, I'm sure all of it

00:20:01
has come to your table at least one time or another, at least

00:20:04
in social.

00:20:05
>> David North: Yeah, I mean, I've had some weird ones. I

00:20:08
had one guy turn around and say, I'm not going to pay you because you're

00:20:11
British.

00:20:13
>> Clint Scheirer: That would be a great reason for me to want to pay you. Your accent

00:20:16
is awesome, man.

00:20:18
>> David North: don't. Don't I sound like I'm from Eon, but

00:20:21
really from the back quarters.

00:20:23
>> Clint Scheirer: That's awesome.

00:20:25
>> David North: Good. What other objections have I

00:20:28
has? I mean, there's a whole host of reasons. Obviously,

00:20:31
one of them is, I'm sorry, I just can't afford it.

00:20:33
Which is a fair enough objection. There's not much

00:20:36
you can do or say. I would say

00:20:39
if you're a professional gm, and you

00:20:42
have a conversation with somebody, and it's a really,

00:20:45
really good conversation, you're really, really confident about this

00:20:48
individual, use them as a seat

00:20:51
filler. Use them as somebody to join your

00:20:54
game, to show that people are interested in your games.

00:20:57
Because the hardest point as a professional

00:21:00
GM is getting first 2P players. The first two

00:21:03
players are always the most difficult. If you can offer one of these

00:21:06
players a seat filler position, a seat filler doesn't even have to

00:21:09
be permanent. And you can explain that to them. you can say

00:21:11
them, come along and play just, just for a little

00:21:14
while, you know, until

00:21:17
I fill up the rest of the table. And if I fill up the rest of

00:21:19
the table, you know, you understand it. You know, we'll put

00:21:22
your character to the side for a moment just to see if I can

00:21:25
get another paid seat field.

00:21:28
you know, and a lot of people are willing to do that

00:21:31
and, you know, be that seat filler.

00:21:34
>> Clint Scheirer: I think what's cool is, you know, offering somebody

00:21:37
a seat to fill the position. it's providing

00:21:40
social proof of your expertise, and

00:21:42
that's kind of worth its weight and money for

00:21:45
people to be able to. To vouch

00:21:48
for your expertise. So I think that's really.

00:21:51
It's a type of reciprocity, I think is the

00:21:54
word. Right. You're giving something because

00:21:56
it's not just to get something back, but it's knowing that. That

00:21:59
goodwill will come back.

00:22:02
>> David North: Can go way.

00:22:03
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah, kind of a karma.

00:22:04
>> David North: I mean, I've had players that have left

00:22:07
because they've fallen on hard times. and

00:22:10
they've, you know, I've said to them, you know,

00:22:13
rather than leave, let's just

00:22:15
00 your session costs

00:22:19
just for a few weeks. We'll see how things

00:22:22
change in the next couple of months. If things pick up, let me

00:22:25
know and we'll keep you on. And, you know, giving them that couple

00:22:28
of months breathing space. Sometimes it's just enough to

00:22:31
keep those players on that, have fallen on hard times or

00:22:34
you know, perhaps they've lost their job and they've

00:22:37
been a really consistent, really good player and you

00:22:39
want to keep them on. So why wouldn't you keep them

00:22:42
on? Especially if they're vibing with the rest of the group.

00:22:46
I've known players to turn around if

00:22:48
someone has been open and honest enough and

00:22:51
said, you know, I'm really sorry, I'm going to have to drop. I

00:22:54
just can't afford this campaign anymore in front of the group.

00:22:57
Which has happened a few times. Not to me personally, but I know it's

00:23:00
happened. The rest of the group sometimes

00:23:03
will turn around and go, we want to cover their costs.

00:23:05
>> Clint Scheirer: O, that's awesome.

00:23:07
>> David North: I will tell you quick story.

00:23:10
I was just scrolling around

00:23:13
online and looking at the

00:23:16
players, looking for DMs posts and things,

00:23:19
and I came across one and it was

00:23:22
somebody looking for a DM for their group of

00:23:25
six. At the time, it was six players. And

00:23:28
they had explained that

00:23:31
they had not had a good time

00:23:34
with two other DMs. Two previous

00:23:36
DMs had really made it hard for

00:23:39
them. They had, you know, allowed

00:23:42
metagaming at the table, had allowed

00:23:46
conversations that should never have occurred

00:23:48
and these kinds of things. And

00:23:51
I reached out to them again, you know,

00:23:54
hey, can I know exactly what you guys are

00:23:57
looking for? What sort of game are you looking for? What kind of D em are

00:24:00
you looking for? And she, they explained to me about their

00:24:03
problem. You know, I went through my usual garb

00:24:05
of who I am, what I do, and what I bring to the

00:24:08
table. And in the end,

00:24:11
this person felt, because two of the

00:24:14
other players were brand new to the game, absolutely brand

00:24:17
new to D20 & D, this individual decided she'snna pay

00:24:20
for the whole table. I was just like, you know what?

00:24:23
That is such a kind thing to do. That is

00:24:26
such a, you know, I want to give my friends

00:24:29
a really good experience of D20 & D. Let's go with

00:24:32
this. Because she'd watched all my YouTube videos, all my

00:24:35
Twitch videos, my TikTok streams, for like two

00:24:38
weeks. She'd been watching them and doing her

00:24:40
research. And when it came down to

00:24:43
when she said that, I was like, okay, fantastic. And

00:24:46
she'd already expressed interest in another one of my

00:24:49
games, and she said she couldn't do it if

00:24:52
she took up the,

00:24:55
like, full table of people, as it were. And

00:24:58
I turned around to her and said, what you talking about? I said, I'm not going to charge

00:25:01
you for that, for that seat at that table. You know,

00:25:04
you're doing a good deed. So I'm going

00:25:07
to do something for you. I'm going to give you a seat, at

00:25:10
another table completely for free. That's a

00:25:12
weekly campaign rather than a monthly one

00:25:15
alongside what you're paying for.

00:25:18
>> Clint Scheirer: The word that encapsulates

00:25:21
everything that we've been talking about is integrity,

00:25:24
right? Like, you are a

00:25:26
GM who has

00:25:29
integrity, and you are fostering

00:25:32
integrity at your table. that's beautiful.

00:25:35
And I think that encapsulates this

00:25:37
hobbyes. There are so many wonderful people

00:25:40
in this community who just pour

00:25:43
out their support, their

00:25:45
encouragement. you can do this, like, play the

00:25:48
game, go get the book, play free, you know,

00:25:51
see how it is. Play with the professional gm. You'll love

00:25:54
it. And that is awesome. So

00:25:57
I. Dude, that's u. that's something I hope you continue

00:26:00
to foster because we need more good

00:26:02
people, showing how great this hobby is

00:26:05
and how people can really love it. Worlds were meant

00:26:08
to be explored, meant to be created, meant,

00:26:11
meant to come into, come into their own. And

00:26:14
people like you are helping us do it. So I guess

00:26:17
my, my gratitude is thank you for doing

00:26:20
that. That's just so cool.

00:26:22
For those of you guys who did not listen to last week's

00:26:24
episode, you know, David was talking about world

00:26:27
building and how players are so important. And

00:26:30
first he's, you know, David, you started Talking about

00:26:33
how NPCs are a vital part of the world

00:26:35
building and so are players.

00:26:39
And what you suggested about

00:26:42
letting somebody stay on a

00:26:44
couple more sessions, maybe, you know, not charging

00:26:47
just to see where they're at, you are

00:26:50
technically keeping the world intact

00:26:53
because to lose even that player's

00:26:56
imaginary character would be losing a part of the

00:26:59
world that was created. That world is

00:27:01
beingah. It's a little less colorful than

00:27:04
it was before. If that person's not at the table.

00:27:06
>> David North: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, especially when it's

00:27:09
somebody that you've had at the table for a while.

00:27:12
You know, if it's somebody that's jumped in for a couple of

00:27:15
sessions and then sort of said, you know,

00:27:18
I've fallen, on hard times, you can make

00:27:20
a judgment call. You know, sometimes you get a feeling that

00:27:23
perhaps that isn't really the issue and

00:27:26
there's something they just don't want to talk about, and you sort of

00:27:29
just let them go and you write

00:27:32
their character out and whatever else

00:27:35
you have to do. the other

00:27:38
alternative is, you know, if

00:27:41
you get a really good feeling about somebody, if they've been with you for

00:27:44
a long time then giving them that bit of

00:27:46
leeway sometimes because especially if they've paid

00:27:49
regularly, they haven't missed payments, they're not late or anything like

00:27:52
that, giving them leeway is

00:27:54
sometimes just the right thing to

00:27:57
do because they've more than earn, that

00:28:00
level of reasonable,

00:28:04
accommodation that you should give

00:28:07
them. And also you don't want to lose

00:28:10
those players. The ones that have been with you for

00:28:13
you know, even six months,

00:28:16
you know, even two or three months. If they are

00:28:19
really consistent and really

00:28:21
engaging, you don't want to lose those players.

00:28:24
And even if it'a professional gm, sometimes you have to cut your

00:28:27
losses and go, you know what, let's keep this player.

00:28:30
Because if I lose this player, I'm likely to lose

00:28:33
this player and it's going to chain onto this player. And sometimes

00:28:36
you have to keep it, you know, try and keep the party

00:28:38
together where you possibly can. Obviously

00:28:41
there are times you can't avoid it. People's lives change,

00:28:44
their work schedule changes and all this sort of stuff and you just

00:28:47
have to chug along. but

00:28:50
yeah, you know, from a GM

00:28:52
perspective, you have to look after your

00:28:55
players. You know, I think it

00:28:58
was o. What's his name, the guy

00:29:01
who owns Virgin, the Virgin

00:29:04
companies.

00:29:05
>> Clint Scheirer: Sir Richard Branson.

00:29:06
>> David North: Sir Richard Branson said it best when it came to

00:29:09
his workers. Teach them well enough

00:29:12
that they can leave if they want to, treat them well

00:29:15
enough so they don't want to.

00:29:17
>> Clint Scheirer: You know the term don't split the party, I think

00:29:20
has multiple meetings here. Yeah,

00:29:23
right. For those who play D20 & D, not splitting the party

00:29:26
usually prevents life. Right. The

00:29:28
characters survive to live another day. And what

00:29:31
you're talking about is preventing a group's

00:29:34
life from diminishing.

00:29:36
>> David North: Yeah, Keeping them, keeping them together as

00:29:39
much as humanly possible is always going to be in

00:29:42
the best interest of any professional gm.

00:29:44
>> Clint Scheirer: Well, David, just like last time, I'm going toa have you

00:29:47
create that ten word phrase,

00:29:50
to help people get the core of the

00:29:53
message that you live and breathe when it comes to

00:29:56
professional GMing. What do you want them to leave with? What

00:29:59
do you want our listener to leave with?

00:30:00
>> David North: A home cooked meal is fine

00:30:03
to dine, fine costs.

00:30:06
>> Clint Scheirer: Oh, that is poetry. And that goes right back to your

00:30:09
analogy that you talked about. The difference between running a

00:30:12
game for free and asking a professional GM to do

00:30:15
it.

00:30:16
>> David North: Yes, I think that that, that really

00:30:18
highlights that.

00:30:21
>> Clint Scheirer: Yeah, that was. So don't delete that. You need to

00:30:24
put that on A shirt that should be your. Your

00:30:27
calling card.

00:30:28
>> David North: u. But, honestly, like that, is the English

00:30:30
literature student coming out in me?

00:30:33
Unintentionally.

00:30:36
>> Clint Scheirer: But dude, this is. This is so great. Yeah, I hope, I hope

00:30:38
that people give it a try. my cousin

00:30:41
Andy, and nobody knew that he was my cousin when he did the

00:30:44
episode with me. I can't remember the episode number,

00:30:47
but he and his, master

00:30:50
class that he was taking, he was getting his masters.

00:30:53
They paid for a professional gm.

00:30:55
>> David North: Yip.

00:30:56
>> Clint Scheirer: And it's what got him into the hobby. Right now, without

00:30:59
that experience, I don't know if he would be as

00:31:02
interested about D20 & D or any of it.

00:31:05
So you guys definitely do good work in the world.

00:31:08
Here's my, final question. It's the quintessential

00:31:11
podcast question. Whenever you finish.

00:31:14
Where can people find you, David? Where can

00:31:17
they get connected? Where do you want them to connect with you?

00:31:20
>> David North: So there are loads. so get pens and

00:31:23
papers ready. If you want to find me on TikTok, it

00:31:26
is at the Captain 91. if you want

00:31:29
to find me on Twitch, it is

00:31:31
SS Adventurer. Twitch TV

00:31:35
SSAD Advventurer. If

00:31:38
you want to find me on YouTube, it's

00:31:40
YouTube.comssvententurerprod

00:31:45
Productions. they are my three Wayne

00:31:48
ones Blue Sky Socials. I am the

00:31:50
Captain 91 and I think

00:31:53
on X, I, am SS Adventurer. But don't worry, I'm

00:31:56
not on X all that much.

00:31:58
>> Clint Scheirer: Well, dude, I will make sure that you re. You

00:32:01
are, available, because I'm sure some people are going

00:32:04
to love what you have, love what you're doing. Thank you

00:32:07
for connecting to me, connecting with me.

00:32:10
Thanks again.

00:32:10
>> David North: Thank you very, very much for having me on board and

00:32:13
also if you are looking for any professional games,

00:32:17
you, can find me on Start Playing

00:32:20
Games GM

00:32:23
SS Adventurer. However, you

00:32:25
don't just have to come and find me. There are many,

00:32:28
many, many other great professional GMs on

00:32:31
start playing, servers. Feel

00:32:34
free to browse and I hope to see at

00:32:37
least someone come and join us.

00:32:39
>> Clint Scheirer: Thanks again, David. And join us next time as we find the best

00:32:42
ways to have great times with friends and experience amazing

00:32:45
stories for tabletop role playing. And dont forget to access your

00:32:48
free Should I pay for a pro GM quiz?

00:32:51
Answer a few easy questions and have a clear direction on

00:32:54
GMG yourself or hiring a gm. I mean,

00:32:57
even if youre re like I was and you were dead set on never

00:33:00
paying to play take the quiz, you

00:33:03
may find out. Paying a pro is the way to go.

00:33:05
And may you keep having fun as we continue to make our

00:33:08
claim to game.